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[OLD] Tyranid Army List v10

 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:27 pm 
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Since the name "Hierodule" has been re-appropriated by GW to mean a "small Tyranid war engine" would it be possible to go back to "Hierophant" and "Hydraphant" for the two sizes of Bio-Titans, to avoid confusion?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:50 pm 
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I've tried to convince Dave to do that on several occasions, but he's not budging. BTW "Hierarch" is a way cooler name than "Hydraphant".

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Rather than a year to designate variant stats, why not just call them "Onochus Zoanthrope", "Onochus Hierodule", etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:05 pm 
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I think no matter which way we go there's going to be confusion. I've had to explain the whole Hierodule/Hierophant/Hydraphant thing numerous times. Players of previous editions of Epic recognize the 'dule and 'phant from the Epic models, players of 40k recognize the smaller 'dule and 'phant by the FW models. Given that, I'd just rather call them what they are within the context of the list rather than switch names around and create something new that nobody outside of our community recognizes.

I was originally going to go with Onachus X/Leviathian X names but didn't want to tie the units to one particular army list. If there's ever a Kraken list I'm sure we'd see posts about why the Leviathan Zoanthrope is in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:21 pm 
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I think my main dislike with the list is that so many critters operate independently from synapses. In my mind only Genestealers and Lictors do that, other creatures 'drop out' and become more like hazards than actual combat units if they lack synapse. Meiotic spore being another exception as they just drift along.

I thought the plan was to include some kind of synapse in all formations (either a hive tyrant, a warrior or two or a synapse symbiont character upgrade), or at least that formation except for the three I mentioned above would count as not having synapse (so init 3+). I guess it's mostly Biovores, Dactylis and Exocrines who are affected, but I feel it weakens the theme to have so many critters not need a synapse.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:24 pm 
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I have to agree with Ulrik.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Up until 5th edition Biovores were able to function outside of Synapse range (they had Ld 10 in 3e and Brood Telepathy like stealers in 4th) so there's definitely precedent for it. Even in 5th they'll pretty much just shoot at something if they're out of Synapse, that's all I can see them doing as Independent Swarms. I'd think that a similar behavior could be extrapolated to the bigger bio-arty bugs (Exocrine and Dactylis). Their Ld is also on par with Lictors/Stealers and the Bio-titans going by the Lords of Battle stats (the closest thing we have to official for 5e slug bugs).

If we made a straight arty-bug Synapse Swarm we'd have to consider the effects of rally bonuses. An automatic rally outside of 30cm for an assault formation is good, but an automatic rally outside of 30cm for a shooting formation is much better, especially given the ranges each of these bugs have.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:41 pm 
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I may have (quite confident that I did actually) missed a conversation on the Mycetic Spores.

Are they missing by accident or was there a decision not to include these?

Still looking over the list. I would be interested to know if anyone would take a Dominatrix at 350 points and DC4 rather than taking the Tyranid Swarm for 200 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:42 pm 
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But it would gain a big weakness - lose the synapse bug and the formation is nearly crippled.

I'd rather go on background than on Ld scores here - Genestealers and Lictor are famous for being "forward scouts" and operating independently. The other ones, not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:43 pm 
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The Spores and Brood Nest are going to be in an experimental rules thread (I'll probably get to posting it tomorrow). Essentially I want more testing before one of them gets worked into the list (if at all).

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:47 pm 
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Can I ask about indirect fire?
Quote:
2.2.6 Indirect Fire
Some weapons are noted as having the indirect fire ability.
Units armed with indirect fire weapons are allowed to fire
indirectly if their formation takes a sustained fire action. Units
belonging to a formation that fails the action test may shoot
normally as part of their hold action, but may not fire
indirectly. Units firing an indirect barrage receive the +1
modifier for taking a sustained fire action. In addition, no line
of fire is required for an indirect fire, as it is assumed that the
barrage is fired high in the air so that the shots rain down on
the target and ignore any intervening terrain. Co-ordinates for
the barrage are provided by ‘spotters’ that are either in other
friendly formations that do have a line of fire, or from orbiting
spy satellites or planes. Finally, the high trajectory used by
weapons firing indirectly greatly increases their range, but
means they cannot fire at targets that are too close by. To
represent this, weapons firing indirectly double their range, but
have a minimum range of 30cm


Now I know barrage is only mentioned once but I was of the mind that only BP weapons could benefit from indirect?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Wasn't there an FAQ allowing it for non-BP weapons? Either way it's not exactly going to cause confusion, and several other lists use it in this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:54 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
I've tried to convince Dave to do that on several occasions, but he's not budging. BTW "Hierarch" is a way cooler name than "Hydraphant".

Chroma wrote:
Since the name "Hierodule" has been re-appropriated by GW to mean a "small Tyranid war engine" would it be possible to go back to "Hierophant" and "Hydraphant" for the two sizes of Bio-Titans, to avoid confusion?

QFT

The naming scheme on Titan is very troubling. Can't we just conform to current fluff size/models and be done with it? Its bad enough people will have to deal with variant troopers creatures but can't we just get the WE size right? I mean the Bio-Titan list is going to be a mess at this rate!

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:57 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
I thought the plan was to include some kind of synapse in all formations (either a hive tyrant, a warrior or two or a synapse symbiont character upgrade), or at least that formation except for the three I mentioned above would count as not having synapse (so init 3+). .


zombocom wrote:
I have to agree with Ulrik.

Again, I thought that was the plan. This list doesn't really match up to that image drawn from other threads?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:17 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Wasn't there an FAQ allowing it for non-BP weapons? Either way it's not exactly going to cause confusion, and several other lists use it in this way.


Baran Thudd Guns have indirect without BPs IIRC. The FAQ was written for them.


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