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[FAN LIST] Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
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Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  [FAN LIST] Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Hi All

Well with no further movement on a Nid list, and with the desire to use my Nid collection against opponents who wanted something different than 9.2.1 or any of the other 'old skool lists', I got Morgan on board and we created the list that I have attached below.

The goals were to:
1. Simplify the 9.2.1 list of rules and mathematical calculations
2. Provide a list that allowed me to use all my old models with stats representing them
3. Provide a list that I would hope others with an old collection could use
4. Provide a strengthened theme in the Nid list rather than have it be so chaotic
5. Divorce myself away from all the endless special rules discussions and include only what mattered
6. Make sure the units represented the miniatures and collections out there

Now the above is not meant to be in opposition to the current Nid development. Like many things, I was just tired of the state of Limbo so decided to take action to make a list that I would enjoy, as well as one that my opponents would also like to play against. As many of the units have had a myriad of playtests, we were quite comfortable in some of the re-organisation in stats and the like with the current costings. No doubt further playtests will see whether we have it balanced or not.

The above is also not a challenge on the fantastic work that Zombo has done to bring Nids into the modern incarnation. When I get my act together, I hope to also have a Leviathan force on the shelves as well. It is important to note however that we do share the same names in Zoanthrope, Raveners, and possibly a few others. No doubt we will have to come to some arrangement for this if required. For now, the names and stats are what they are I guess.

Please feel free to read the list and supply feedback. I am sure there are many other enthusiasts of the old Hive War that may be able to add something to it.

I will discuss such units like the Raveners; why I included them, and again why I restricted them; in a further post. For now however, I hope we have provided something of worth to the Old Skool Nid players out there.

Tchk Tchok Tchik (or Cheers..... in English)

Attachments:
File comment: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - 07/08/2011
- previous list downloaded 32 times
xNids16.pdf [151.07 KiB]
Downloaded 646 times
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
I just uploaded the correct document as of 7.09 GMT+10. Sorry for any confusion if you downloaded the incorrect one.
Author:  lord-bruno [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
I really like the structure of the list, I´ll give it a try.
Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Looks interesting; I'll be happy to give it a spin when I get me Tyranid force painted up (after the AdMech force, so sometime late this year, I'm afraid).

Kudos:

I like the Insertion Swarms. I always liked all airborne assault armies, and I find it cool and appropriate that the Tyranids can do it too. Though, the Razorfiend transport capacity seems to limit this unnecessarily - why not just allow it to carry any number of units? The insertion swarm is already much more expensive than the assault swarm.

Minor typo:

Ravener, not Ravenor.

Suggestions:

Meiotic Spore Sacs: Couldn't these get scout? It seems natural to disperse these widely, to deny area both to flyers and ground forces.

Curious Questions:

Why the nerf on Gargoyles? I haven't played myself, but FF5+ seemed reasonable enough?

It looks like you're including the FW MCs (Meiotic spore sacs, Hierodules, Winged Tyrants)? Why not the Malanthrope, or the Winged Warriors?
Author:  uberChris [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Ah, Mythology. "Tarrasque" was the off-spring of "Onachus". Hmm, curious...
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
SpeakerToMachines wrote:
I like the Insertion Swarms. I always liked all airborne assault armies, and I find it cool and appropriate that the Tyranids can do it too. Though, the Razorfiend transport capacity seems to limit this unnecessarily - why not just allow it to carry any number of units? The insertion swarm is already much more expensive than the assault swarm.

Yes this was probably one of the hardest areas to price. With the Razorfiend I did have 40 as a Transport Capacity and then took it back to 30. I guess what I was looking at was having 3 above-average-good drops rather than make it unlimited, and thereby (maybe) coming into problems with a cliche list that the opponents would get tired of playing against real quick. I was going to place the capacity up to 36, however I guess I forgot about that one :) It would be good just to test it with 30 for now and see whether the push to 36 is necessary. Ultimately the enjoyment for my opponent is foremost in my mind as well as providing the player with some fun as well.

A few games played will tell me whether the pricing on the Hive Fleet or Spores is correct or not.

Quote:
Minor typo:
Ravener, not Ravenor.

I will get that done

Quote:
Suggestions:
Meiotic Spore Sacs: Couldn't these get scout? It seems natural to disperse these widely, to deny area both to flyers and ground forces.

That is a good idea. It may need a small price hike however I do like the concept. I will put that on the whiteboard for later follow-uo

Quote:
Curious Questions:
Why the nerf on Gargoyles? I haven't played myself, but FF5+ seemed reasonable enough?

This was done purely to bring their price down and in line with the other gaunts. It was a struggle to make all 3 gaunt units equal and viable choices to each other so I guess we sacrificed a small note on the model stats to fit the needs of the list. In doing so however, the 'look' on the table of the massed swarms should be a sufficient recompense.

Quote:
It looks like you're including the FW MCs (Meiotic spore sacs, Hierodules, Winged Tyrants)? Why not the Malanthrope, or the Winged Warriors?

Well I used 9.2.1 as the base and went from there. I will detail why I kept the Ravener, Brood Lord etc in a later post when I am not rushing off to work -- :) -- and I will tackle those other units that were not included then as well. For now, I guess I am just keeping to the old Hive War supplement where I can while taking advantage of the play-test data from 9.2.1 as a guide rather than trying to 'upset the whole applecart'.

SpeakerToMachines & lord-bruno: Definately appreciate the kind words, questions and observations. No doubt all the feedback will help the list develop to something many can appreciate ;)

Regards...
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
uberChris wrote:
Ah, Mythology. "Tarrasque" was the off-spring of "Onachus". Hmm, curious...


? I did not know this! That is interesting, I was looking for the biggest and baddest monster that was not used yet and a thought from my old D&D days came to mind and I came up with that. Haha! Very interesting indeed and probably appropriate as it is a similar list with a different execution :)
Author:  arkturas [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Just a few queries.
1) The support swarm by default doesn't have relentless unless it has a Warrior/Tyrant upgrade.
2) Common swarms can take any number of upgrades? (so big Haruspex/Malefactor swarms are possible with the minimum of gaunts)
3) Typo on Hierophant in list
4) Mycetic spores don't appear to be explained very well, just marked as planetfall.
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
arkturas wrote:
Just a few queries.
1) The support swarm by default doesn't have relentless unless it has a Warrior/Tyrant upgrade.
2) Common swarms can take any number of upgrades? (so big Haruspex/Malefactor swarms are possible with the minimum of gaunts)
3) Typo on Hierophant in list
4) Mycetic spores don't appear to be explained very well, just marked as planetfall.


Hi arkturas. Sure things ... here we go:

1. Edited - Correct. If you wish to purchase an upgrade for it then you can get it. I was going for the look of a massed support in a way much like you could in the Hive War supplement and which was missing in 9.2.1. I really like the idea of 6 Exocrines and more than 4 Biovores, however having an INF or AV Command Genus was cost intensive - so I decided to leave it up to player choice. Do you think it was a bad idea?

--> At last count I had about 15 Exocrines, 18-20 Biovores and 6-9 Dactylis. It would be good to have a possible use for some of these models again.

2. Probably just another omission that I may have to add as well :P For now, as no play-tests have happened, just one upgrade of each item in each group is allowed. I actually thought that the Dominatrix should get 2x Group 1 and 2x Group 2 (2 of each option in each group) however as it is a first release, I just thought one was best to see how the formations worked with their increased numbers. I guess I am just a little wary of overkill.

3. Typo in the Hierophant --> Thanks for that. I will amend the doc

4. Mycetic Spores --> I will add a little ditto to the front page with the other rules.

Thanks for the feedback. Let me know your thoughts on one selection of each item in each group. Obviously I am going to have to find the correct wording for this area ;)
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Error Checking:

Malefactor - document lists Transport (2 INF/HI units)

The 'HI' is left over from a failed attempt to introduce Heavy Infantry. In effect that 'HI' should be 'LV' (mainly for the Zoanthrope).

After a lost night of sleep trying to decide what I actually wanted for the look of the list, I decided to dump the whole 'Heavy Infantry' idea and stick with LV as it best represented the models I had for it. It also assisted in the attempt to not introduce a needless rule.
Author:  lord-bruno [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Is there any chance to get a formation of Trygons only?? We are old school and lack any form of Ravener.

The Mycetic Swarm reminds me of old times playing nids in 3rd edition and assaulting from orbit, I´ll give it a try but it seems a bit expensive though.

Special Rules are quite sensible, but probably I will modify slightly Relentless as a house rule.

BTW, are Synapse Nodes similar (or identical) to Eldar Gates and Necron Tombs???
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Hi lord-bruno

The Trygon only formation sounds like a reasonable request. Leave that one with me and I will see how I fit it into the selection (there is a 50 point defecit there that I have to manage). To get it to work I may say 1x Trygon and must take one of the available upgrades being 'blah & blah'. I will see what I can do.

The Mycetics does get back to Hive War and I also remember having a whole drop force of Nids taking on the dreaded squats - fun days. The game has changed from the scoring of units per turn and so that game is not so much fun for the opponent these days unless of course the mycetics were forced to come down before turn 3. I know it looks expensive, however we are talking about up to 9 units dropping for 325 points each (after the Hive Ship cost). I will get a test game in and see if this can be dropped by another 25 points. I was basing it in 25 points per two units + 25 points in case of a minimum upgrade. So there is scope there to drop the points. Early days yet however so the feedback is definately appreciated.

With Relentless... what was the main concern?

Synapse Nodes: Yes, exactly like Eldar gates - text is the same. The only difference is that if you pay for it, you can replace all the objectives on your side of the table, not just the one. This was Morgan's idea and I feel it is definately an improvement on the 9.2.1 execution of the same thing.

Hope all the above helps

Cheers and thanks for taking the time.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Based on lord-bruno's request, I am going to change the Subterrain Swarm to the following:

-----------------------------
Subterranean Swarm
Two Trygons: 225 points

Upgrades:
- One Trygon +100 points
- Replace one Trygon with six Ravener units +25 points
-----------------------------

Based on SpeakerToMachines suggestion on the Meiotic Spores, I am changing the Meitic Spores to have the following:

- Gain Scout ability (they will remain at the same points as they were never really ever taken in any of our games)
-----------------------------

Thanks guys for the input so far.

Cheers....
Author:  lord-bruno [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
Quote:
With Relentless... what was the main concern?


No real concern with Relentless, just a small detail. The rule has mainly three parts:
-> +2 Initiative when Engaging, Tyranids charge and slash with teeth and claws, OK
-> +2 Initiative when making rally tests, Tyranids don´t care about casualties, and they have their synapse creatures, OK
-> Synapse creatures destroyed in common swarms: they lose the former +2 rally, they no longer have the influence of the Hive Mind, OK... but... they lose +2 to engage, well, it could be, they are not keen to assault. But they have no penalty at all on other actions like sustained fire or marshall, and tyranids without synapse should not be able to keep fighting in order IMO.

Synapse Nodes: so I pay 50 points for turning all objectives into nodes, or just one???

Quote:
Thanks guys for the input so far.


Thank you, I think we have finally found a Tyranid list that is straightforward and has a good "feel" about tyranids. Anyway I will keep losing versus IG :'(
Author:  person [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hive Fleet Tarrasque - An Old Skool Nid List
I would reprice the smaller biotitans at 250 each so I can have 2 with my dominatrix at 3K.
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