Hello, I have been doing some play testing of the ‘Nids and thought I would pass on the thoughts my group has come up with. Our new guy picked up a nice looking ‘Nid army off of Bartertown and I have been teaching him how to play. I want to thank you all for the work done in developing these lists. We have had much fun teaching the new guy how to play.

Here is a brief rundown of the games we have done for context. We try to play by the proposed special ‘nid rules by Jaldon, but got a few things wrong. Does formations with synapse ignore the -2 to rally?
9.2.1 (2k) vs Steel Legion (1800): victory to Steel Legion
This was the intro game to teach Monty how to play. Not surprising that I won, but he grasped what was going on quickly.
9.2.1 vs Krieg (Me), 3k: Had to call it a draw due to time. My Krieg force had the advantage at the end of turn 3. He got to see the power of scout screens, and supporting fire. I noticed a “waves crashing onto the beach” style of play from the ‘Nids. I would assault or be assaulted by the Nids, and would generally come out on top for the first couple of times. The ‘Nid formations would then rally and spawn back up (with help of Brood Mother from the Dominatrix). They would then crash back into my lines.
9.2.1 vs Orks (Brian) 1500pts: Brian took a turn at our FLGS’s Epic demo day. ‘Nids pulled this one out. 1500 isn’t the best points level, but every bit of experience counts.
Onachus vs Krieg vs Biel Tan vs Marines, 3k: We played a 4 way with a king of the hill format. I love how these games fit well into the EA system. More than two sides doesn’t work nearly as well with 40k. Biel Tan won this game, due to the Brian’s unbelievable luck (and Eldar’s complete brokenness). Monty was a little over-aggressive with his bugs, but caused mass carnage and chaos across the battlefield.

Thoughts on Special Rules:
Initiative 1+/Strat 1- These seem fine to me. The 3+ for synapsless swarms seem to work out well as the unit is really chewed up by that point anyways. At that point their use will be to burn activations, screen, and/or consolidating onto objectives.

Expendable - I think the rule is working well. The lack of additional BM’s due to shooting is good. I am glad the ½ gaunt rule is gone, but this rule means that the ‘Nids are probably going to lose the majority of the early engagements. However, played properly, I think the ‘Nids can come back later in game once casualties begin to wear on the opponent.

Spawning - I prefer the resurrection style spawning. The bookkeeping is much easier for creating lists. This to me creates the “crashing waves” style of play that I alluded to earlier.

Brood Mother - I played one game against Monty that we (mistakenly) had the Dominatrix add 1d3 to everyone in 45cm. 30cm is definitely more appropriate for that. I am also of the mind that only the Dominatrix should be able to add spawn points to other formations. I propose that the rule be amended to Brood Mother (1d3) or Brood Mother (x). The first would add the indicated number to the formation’s spawning, while (x) indicates all units within 30cm. I do not think it overly complicates the rule, but I could be wrong. I find it logical that the Tervigon (or assault spawn for the older lists) would be able to support its formation, whereas the Dominatrix is geared for supporting the whole force (and generally scaring the pants of everything is sight).

Instinctive - Didn’t see any issues with this. Most formations that reach this point aren’t major players.

Tunnelers & Mobility - Just fine.

General Thoughts:
Synapse – I have found it is too easy to kill synapse for Warriors (and the like) to stay at LV. The expendable rule means that a change in type probably shouldn’t be overpowered.

Supreme Commander – There should be an option for a non-Dominatrix Supreme Commander. I propose hive tyrant have the “Old Adversary” or “Swarmlord” upgrade as long as a Dominatrix is not included (the Hive Mind). Off-hand I would say it would be 50-100pts would be fair. You could also add in an extra MW cc attack, or Brood Mother (1) if you wanted to represent the greater capabilities. The Dominatrix would still be good for multiple reasons, but you would have an option to not be shoehorned into that choice.

Harridan – Think the bio-cannons should be upgraded to have AA capabilities. The 40k version has a high enough rate of fire to warrant an AA5+ or AA6+ attack. You could list it as a separate profile and reduce the range to 30cm or make it fxf for the attack.

Lictors – Should have 6+ FF due to changes to flesh hooks. This would update them appropriately and help them deal with all types of targets. I don’t think this would be too much.

Activations – The activation count appears to be about 8 at 3k. Not sure if this is universal or even a hindrance.

Engagements – I have noticed that the first couple of assaults tend to go against the Tyranids (with the exception of Lictor assaults). The formations are very susceptible to clipping due to mobility. Against Orks, IG, and Marines, I don’t think this will be an issue. I do see Eldar, and especially Necrons to be a huge issue for ‘Nids with the amount skimming and portal based movement. Brian and I are both of the same mind that a webway Eldar force backed up by Storm Serpents, Voidspinners and Eldar Titans are going to be an uphill battle at best. The ability of Eldar to dance away after winning assaults is huge, especially since there is a good chance that they won’t take a lot of casualties (eg Wraithguard guardian formations). Not sure if you all have any advice for that matchup.

Old vs New models – It would be a great help for new players for a suggested proxy for new/old model types. Like Tyrranofex = Exocrine for example. I think it is far more likely that a new player will have access to the old style models than new.

That was a lot of text, but it encompasses most of my thoughts on the current Tyranid development. As usual, this is just my thoughts and opinions, and may or may not have any bearing on reality. If you have any questions about our play environment, army composition etc, don’t hesitate to ask.

So you used 9.2.1 with Jaldon's special rule changes?

From your first post, Jaldon did away with all rally mods for them. So they don't get the +2 to rally (is that what you meant? Onachus uses the ignore the -2 for being broken) even if they have synapse.

Re: the unit changes, those are being worked on. Warriors will be INF and Lictors might get the 6+ FF. Definitely no AA on the Bio-cannons though, that will be one of the things the list is missing.

On the SC option, when they had a bonus to rally you could play the list without one. Without it, its definitely more of a hindrance to play without the Dom. If they get the bonus to rally back I don't think they'll need, or should have, a cheap SC option.

Did you play with merging/absorbing of synapeless swarms?

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Most of the games have been with 9.2.1. The last game was with Onachus.

Some of the games we played with the following: 1+ Synapse, 2+ Independents, 3+ synapseless, +1 engage, +1 rally. This was before we realized that all mods had been removed. I do think the "ignore the -2 for being broken" for synapse swarms from your list is a nice option from a fluff standpoints.

We played the first game or two with merging swarms, but it produced some confusion. It was a headache that didn't seem to add much for the 9.2.1 list. The last several games have been more or less with only Jaldon's spec rules only. I'll ask Monty if he likes being able to merge swarms, but he hasn't seemed to complain about it. He's still learning, and so am I on 'Nids. One of the things we like is fixing the swarm composition because it makes list building more intuitive and it doesn't mess with the victory conditions.

I can definitely see your point about not needing a SC if you have mods, but that would only be if they had any bonuses to engage. It doesn't seem like the Onachus rally rule would be overpowered if you had an option for a cheap SC. I think many would still go for the Dominatrix as she is a scary prospect with her combat and Brood Mother ability. The fluff does support the concept of a "super" hive tyrant as the Hive Mind will spawn them to combat particularly tough opponents.

Hope my feedback is of any use. I am going to try and get some more games in with Monty over the next few weeks. If you all would like us to test anything in particular just let me know. If you have any tips for fighting Biel Tan with bugs it would be appreciated as well. I can see some ways of fighting it but am not sure (I am much more familiar with playing LATD and IG/Krieg).

Fluff does support the possibility of a SC Hive Tyrant, but it's always been an intentional limitation that the list has to take a dominatrix to get it. Whether that's a justified limitation is another matter.

I agree that the lack of a rallying mod is affecting the list a lot, to the point where points should probably be adjusted if it stays that way. I'd rather have the ignore the broken rally mod back though. In any case, I want to get more playtests in to help illustrate my point.

Was the merging done as per 9.2.1 rules or as per Onachus rules? Jaldon dumped it in all forms but I think this version is workable for the reasons I listed.

Testing the changes Jaldon listed though would be helpful, throw in other things if you like. If you can post the reps that would be great too, if not a game synopsis is good. Like I said, unit stats are in the works, not sure how long before they'll be out though.

Re: tactics:

There's a "magic distance" for bugs, a small band that's greater than 30cm and less than 40cm. In that your Termagants have a chance of FFing and your Hormagaunts have a chance to CC while 15cm move enemy infantry can't engage you. That's definitely something you need to take advantage of no matter who you're playing against. 'nids don't like FF for the most part, and don't like clipping assaults any more than any other army. Stick to cover and stay outside of 30cm and inside of 40cm and you'll have some options.

With SR of 1 you also need to present multiple threats to your opponent at the start of the turn, otherwise you'll never get into an assault. Having 4+ assaults lined up for the start of the next turn is good, because chances are your opponent will get strategy and blast two of them before they can do anything. Like you said, Eldar are tough here because they have a lot of Skimmers, and can use Farsight once every turn. Your best bet is attrition, your losses come back for the most part, theirs don't. Stick to cover near objectives and let them come closer.

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The first time for merging was with 9.2.1 rules, but we kind of modified them since it was Monty's first game. After that we dropped merging and used fixed formations because that is the direction I saw from Jaldon's post. The initiative and modifiers have been slightly off in use, but I am now going to have him use what Jaldon has posted now that I understand them. I do have concerns about the lack of rallying mods but that's what playtesting is for. The flip side of that might mean that 'Nids would have a lot of games ending in a tie-breaker. Not sure. Will try and get a few battle reports in with all of my ducks in a row and let you all know how it goes.

Thanks for the tactics advice. I am alright at the game, but not terribly experienced with the 'Nid playstyle. I want to make sure that I am giving Monty the right advice.

First Krieg I want to thank you, and your group, for playtesting the Nid list special rules. For now they are in their infancy because I made such radical changes to them to bring the army more back in line with how other lists work in the GT scenario. The point is changes will, and to some extent already have, been made.



You would be correct merging causes too many play balance issues, especially if one goes into a tie breaker.



In the number of playtest games we have recently played, with the local group, it really hasn't come up as a big issue. Notice I did not say a dead issue. I am considering a 'Rally Modifier' for the Nids to get the bugs back in the fight with more consistancy then we get using straight line Rally. If you want to playtest it my idea right now is to give swarms under the control of synapse creatures a +1 modifier in the end phase for rallies.



In most of the games I have played, or observed recently, the Nids in 3,000pt battles have an activation count of 8 to 9. Have you ever read 'Building and Using Epic-A Armies'?



This depends a lot on how your swarms are orgainized. I prefer to 'specialize' all my swarms for certain types of missons on the table. Most of the Swarms are CC monsters with just Raveners and Hormies containing 16-18 units each OR a Carnifex Swarm of Hormies and Carnifexes 10 to 12 units strong. Both types have had little trouble vaporizing enemy formations when they first plow into them, and this includes Orks, IG, and LatD. The next type is made up of Hormies and Termies and is smaller then the CC Monster Swarm containing mostly Termies with a sprinkling of Hormies and is between 8-10 units in strength. Its job is to cover flanks and provide FF assault support, hey every little bit helps.



Ahh the Eldar, seem to be the bane of all Horde Players. Ok the Eldar DO have some very exploitable weaknesses, problem most players have is getting into a position to exploit those weaknesses.
(1) Use the Humble Genestealers, in small groups, to set up speed bumps in front of Nid Swarms to prevent the Eldar from just being able to pick their point of attack. Nothing aggrevates an Eldar player more then having to use the activation of one of their formations to clear off a scout screen. Also use the Genestealers to cover the flanks of formations to prevent effective clipping assaults. Last put them on open flanks to help the swarms contain the Eldar.
(2) Do NOT leave any gaps in your line that the Eldar can move through and get behind you early in the battle. The havoc even one of their formations can create behind the lines will often cost a Horde player the battle.
(3) Use the Nid disregard for shooting to march and double right into them while maintaining a containment line they cannot pass through without trying to blow a big hole in it. Soon they will be boxed in and will have no place to run too after they hit you.
(4) Use Lictors and Genestealers to create dead areas in your rear areas if the Eldar have Deep Strike forces available to them.

Thanks For your input Krieg and Cheers,
Jaldon

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Is there some place to report battle results for Nids?

Played a game today with Onachus 0.3, but the new special rules. Was vs Net EA Biel Tan, Nids won in turn 4 (BTS, Take & Hold vs BTS).

Nids had 8 formations total, and after turn 2 (which started with nearly all formations in both armies in assault range of something) was left with 4 or 5 broken formations (which all failed to rally) and 2 active formations for turn 3. Eldar didn't manage to win even though they had BTS by killing the Dominatrix (War Walkers on sustain stripped off 5DC), and in turn 4 the Nids rallied and spawned back to 3 nearly full strength Tyranid Swarms. One of them assaulted and broke a guardian host with wraithguard and support platforms, capturing the other take and hold objective. Biovores got attacked by phoenix bombers at the end, saving 4 out of 5 hits (with 6+ save); if they instead had failed 3 or more out of the 5 they would have broken and the Eldar would have captured the blitz, resulting in a tie. Phoenix bombers should be deadly vs the LV biovores, but they weren't this time.

The Eldar player didn't like facing an army with spawning, saying that it felt almost pointless to fire at the swarms. He said he usually likes to spread the firepower so several formations are less effective rather than concentrating on one formation and destroying it (which didn't work that well vs nids).

Not at this time as the only thing really under full review right now are the special rules.



and.............



The Nids spawning back to near full strength in their Brood Swarms, if they are left to their own devices, is the effect we want to create. In our playtest battles, thus far, the Nid Army had to be disected, Swarm by Swarm, to stop it. Otherwise the opponent couldn't stop the Nid advance, thus creating the 'endless horde of tooth and claw' we want to have.

As for your friends dislike of the Nid Spawning forcing him to change his preferred tactics, I say the following. "I know players that dislike the Eldar Hit and Run rule because it allows them to jump out, slaughter a formation, and then dance away out of retalitory range. I say the same thing to them as I now do to your friend's feelings about spawning. In Epic-A the mark of a good player is one that can adapt their tactics to fit both the situation on the battlefield and the army they are facing. And with the variety of armies available, and the differences in each, adaptation is the norm not the exception. To me the great strength of Epic-A is the very simple way it covers these differences while maintaining very good play balance. Figuring out how to adapt to these differences, both in the armies and the battlefield situation, makes Epic-A a great game to be ENJOYED, so sit back, roll some dice and enjoy it."

Jaldon

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I agree

Just reporting my opponents thoughts. For me, I didn't really like the fact that the other tactic to stop a swarm from spawning, to just ignore it, also works. The swarm that made the game winning assault was at full strength after turn 2 and then just stood around guarding an objective in turn 3 (to deny DTF and HTL). It was ignored for almost two turns (the assault being the penultimate activation of the game) but didn't grow. The old argument against resurrection-style spawning.

Jaldon, what are the play balance issues that you think merging causes?

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Had a game today with Leviathan using the new rules and in-progress stats. I played against Jstr19's Tau, and lost 2-1 on turn 3. (blitz + TNH vs blitz).

The main issue that came up was the resurrection-only spawning. Because the Tau focused their firepower on one formation at a time, the other formations didn't get to spawn at all; I even had a Tervigon in a formation near a Brood Nest, and more than 30cm from the enemy (so 4d3 spawning!), but all that spawning ability was totally wasted.

In total I spawned 5 units over the course of the game.

Honestly, at this level you might as well remove the rule entirely.

There are a number of problems that merging causes, play balancing the list being only one of the issues. Even further, Merging has been part of the Nid list almost from its inception so the game mechanic itself has been playtested to death. It, like other former Nid special rules, were so far out of the norm for any Epic-A army that it required the GT rules themselves be modified (I know I was the one that wrote the first Nid GT modified victory results). In effect we were bending the GT rules to fit the Nid Army, a bad thing in my opinion, rather then make the Nid Army fit into the GT scenario as it is, a good thing in my opinion.

Merge Mechanics have either not been restrictive enough, thus making it too easy for the Nids to accomplish it, or too restrictive, making it almost pointless to do it. In battles I was seeing a trend in the Nid Swarms where, by the time the Synapse creatures had been eliminated, the swarm contained very few units. Forcing a Nid player to use up an activation to 'scoop them up' seemed too restrictive and pointless. This often led to the 'non-scooped up' Nids being eliminated from the table for having no synapse to follow. So to prevent units from being eliminated for free the Nid player had to lose an activation to scoop them up, for a net loss of two activations in a single turn. Under the very old Nid rules the swarm need only have the brood creatures in synapse range at the start of the turn and it could 'scoop them up' for free, not restrictive enough. About the only thing lost here was the syapseless swarms activation, while the absorbing swarm got a free boost in its strength.

In both cases the rule itself starts to bring up other rules issues that have to be addressed, like what do we do with the blast markers from the absorbed swarm? What qualifys as being 'close enough' to the synapeless swarm to absorb it? Now we have to start writing rules to cover the original rule written rather then just teaking the rule to get it to work right. That itself leads into creating new problems that have to be addressed by the new addition to the rule that was added to make it work, and on, and on, and on. This is the trend I have seen in the merge mechanic from the start, the constant 'additions' to the rule that they themselves end up having to be addressed later when its effects come to light. That, or the 'new way' of doing it then ends up going down the same road only with a different way of getting started down that road.

Between these two extremes I have watched, and participated in, bending, folding, spindiling, and mutilating the merge mechanic, all to no good end. As it applies to the rule itself.

Then there is how do we apply the absorbed swarm into the GT Tie Breaker? Do we consider it a destroyed Swarm? That works just fine the majority of the time as the syanpseless swarm itself is often only a handful of units. But there are the rare occasions when the synapseless swarm contains a good number of units, and that would be a huge punishment to the Nids for an opponent getting a few lucky dice rolls with their snipers! Don't have a rule like this and you end up punishing the opponent despite their best efforts at beating a swarm into the ground.

I could literally go on with even more speed bumps we have run across trying to get merging right. In the end, in my opinion anyways, it is these extremes that merging creates that make it almost impossible to play balance it in the Nid Army list.

Cheers All,
Jaldon

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I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC