Frogbear: Every tyranid model ever made will be usable in one of the two lists.

I understand that sentiment - it appears there are some that do not care for the older models. I am just making the point quite clear to those people who follow 40K blindly to the detriment of others.

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You're right, some people, myself included, aren't bothered about the old units. Likewise, some people couldn't give a monkey what GW has done in the latest codex.

This is why having two lists is so clearly the best solution. Everyone ends up happy.

Well, except people who really really want to field both an exocrine and a tyranofex at the same time.

Or people who think having 2 lists for what amounts to minute differences which should probably be abstracted out at epic scale is a waste of time.

Don't forget those people in your sweeping generalisations.

I have no issue with representations. As long as I can play the models I have and do not have to buy more just to play them.

The decision to buy more/different minis should be my decision, not something enforced on me by the list. Not sure exactly how many points of nids I have (must top 4000+ points), however I would think it a sad indictment if I could not play the list to its full potential with the minis I have.

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So, what you're saying is, a list with units generic enough to represent old, new and mystery future models, one that would allow you to use your malefactor model just as easily as a carnifex model as the same unit, would be best.

Not necessarily. If it could be done, then good. My feeling however is that a list to incorporate all would turn out to be a kitchen sink list - something no-one wants I believe.

I am also not so fussed in regards to two different playtests for two lists. With the speed that the NetEA develops and moves, it really would not be an issue.

So whatever works to make sure we have the right list/s and people with established collections can use ALL their minis is what I am campaigning for, nothing more.

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Mike: perhaps you should cross your legs, your agenda is showing.

I've no problem with mild abstraction. but over-generalisation is what ruined Epic40k

certain elements of tyranid fluff have been ignored in recent years by GW, not because of some sweeping reimagination, but simply because there is no particular call for an Exocrine style biotank in a 40k scale system.

we arent playing a 40k scale system. thats kinda the point.

Now i'm not saying a dactylis and a exocrine need seperate statlines (i mean, who needs more than one type of artillery unit? the IG certainly only have the 4...) but there should be some distinction between a carnifex and a malefactor (although a malefactor could in modern times be represent by a carnifex with guns instead of claws, or a tyrannofex)

I'd be ok with 4 or 5 types of biotank (Carnifex, Trygon/Mawloc, Exocrine/Dactylis, Malefactor/Haruspex/Tyrannofex, maybe split the artillery into a direct shot and a BP)

that way, assuming zombo where to overcome his distaste of history, there wouldnt need to be two lists, as models within every bracket would exist (i imagine a new age exocrine would be a scalled up bio/pyro-vore, dunno about the dactylis, it was just plain goofy lookin)

likewise, there should be a bigger biotitan than the current scale heirophant for the simple reason that epic needs big things.

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Well, I'm hardly unique in having an overt agenda in this sub forum, though we do seem to be agreeing on just about everything.

Rationalise Tyranid armored vehicles down to a workable number, add to list, test, just like every other army.


Also, for the record, I have quite a few of the old style slugtanks, a fair few of both styles of carnifex, a number of converted/kitbashed tyranid AV style creatures, and a possible interest in new style carnifex models. I don't have an agenda other than to see a list ready for actual use. I believe splitting development along such an arbitrary line as the type of models someone has will only drag development out, and will most likely lead to two separate camps duplicating most of each others work.

And yes, a Bio Titan between a Reaver and Warlord is logical, useful, and even practical, what with the existing model.

For now, Jaldon has made it clear he wants to go down the two lists route. If that doesn't work out I'm sure he'd be open to trying the more genericised route.

I have no problem to use for example an Exocrine as a Tyrannofex count-as in one list and as an actual Exocrine in another.

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But where does that leave the Dominatrix which is clearly based on the non-canon Hydraphant?

My current view is that a Bio-Titan list needs at least two staple Bio-Titans (Hiero and Hydra stats) and potentially use the slugs as well.

The dominatrix is referred to in the current codex, it's solid canon. As regards to its size and appearance, it only says that it dwarfs an imperial super-heavy tank. We can assume it's much like the old epic version.

Well yes the Dominatrix is canon, I assume then that it isn't in the same role as the Hierophant so is allowed to be larger and more powerful while getting around 'the Hierophant is the largest assault creature' text in Apocalypse.

Yeah, the dominatrix isn't a "shock troop" so can be bigger.