A realigning of the creatures is currently taking place, though not exactly along these lines.

I want to use my old models - period.

I may want to use the new models with the current incarnation of the nids.

Two lists or you will always have this divide.

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Two lists is the plan.

Refusing to use something bigger than the Hierophant simply because current 40k fluff doesn't mention it is silly IMO. Unless there's very strong wording that it's the biggest thing there is (like it is for the Harridan) there should be plenty of space for introducing a bigger bug (and some guardsman saying "it was the biggest I've ever seen!" doesn't cut it).

There is nothing saying it is the biggest bug there is but there are several relevant quotes:





As such the idea of the "Hydraphant" or whatever as just a bigger version of the Hierophant doesn't work, as anything bigger can't be in the same "Shock Troop" role as the Hierophant.



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As regards to suggesting the scythed and barbed hierodules are the equivilent of warhound titans, there is nothing to suggest that. They are significantly smaller, and are several times described is being roughly equivilent to super-heavy tanks;





Equally, even if it was warhound-sized, that doesn't mean we could simply switch to the Hierophant stats, as there's much more to statting them than just their size.

A super-heavy Tank and a Warhound Titan (or any Scouit Class Titan) are roughly equivalent in durability (bar the Void Shields). The Titan is more heavily armed.

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The point is that they're never compared to scout titans, always to super-heavy tanks, so suggesting majorly upgrading them makes no sense.

Is there really that much resistance to unifying the Tyranid units/names down to something more abstract like with the Ork lists?

The Orks went from having Spleen rippers, bone breakers, gut rippers etc, to gun wagons. Would the Tyranid list really suffer so much from going from, say, Exocrine/twin venom cannon Carnifex to gun beast, or malefactor/crushing claw carnifex to claw beast?

Splitting the list along old/new models is only going to substantially increase the development time for little if any benefit.

QFT.

I agree with Mike. There seems to be a lack of consistency as to the direction of the NetEA related lists. Some things are immediately screamed down and dismissed as "should be abstracted", like Marine Stern/Vanguard, or Orks in general. Yet other things go to NetEpic style microscale and we get 7 different Land Raider variants, 5 or more Dreadnought variants, and it all passes with little comment.

One of the things that attracted me to this version of Epic, was the focus on 'battlefield roles' and genericized TO&E's, rather than micromanaged Wargear concept. But that doesn't seem to be the trend. Having to remember all the varied "alternate" versions of varying miniatures can be off-putting, especially for the less experienced players. "I assault your LandRaiders on Overwatch. Wait, what do you mean they've each got two MW shots?"

Besides the arguments Mike raised regarding playtest extension (not something that should be dismissed), you also have the issue that the Tyranids don't currently HAVE any models. Some players like FrogBear have large quantities of the old. Others (with the skill and know-how) may create their own. Others yet, would be looking at alternate ranges. Having a more generic list would mean all three could easily slot into place.

Morgan Vening

Agree w/ Morgan. There's definite playing of favourites when it comes to micro-modelling of capabilities.

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The issue with the assault spawn is that they get a passing mention so they still exist and that they were notably faster than the Carnifex which would be the basis for equivalent replacements. I don't think a Carnifex weapon variant can represent a Haruspex or Malefactor.



No but I think it's an equally valid view to say the 40k Hierodules are statted and pointed closer to the Warhound than to the Baneblade. Which in Epic would put the Hierodule in the 200-300pt range.

As pointed out the Hierophant is noted as "... the largest Tyranid assault organisms yet encountered, comparable in size and power to the God-Machines of the Titan Legions". So do we take that as true and drop the stats of the Dominatrix (as it is effectively a Hydraphant) or upgrade the Hierophant to where it is in 40k, between the Warhound and Reaver.

In the end Jaldons stats will decide what direction we go in.

The Epic stats are already in that range.

If a model exists (as in the larger of the two bio Titans), then I want to use it.

If a list is produced where I cannot take such a mini (representative or not), then I will simply write my own. If people cannot come to an agreement on the lists, as I have said before, you will always have fractured playgroups. Everyone can be accomodated, so I really do not understand why this is connsistently being discussed - we are getting nowhere.

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