Tactical Command
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Interim Tyranid Champion
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20229		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Interim Tyranid Champion
In Chroma's absence, Jaldon has agreed to step back in as AC. Given his track record in general, and his experience reconciling the Squat and Demiurg projects in particular, I am confident that he will be able to push forward on a solid, middle-ground Nid list in an expeditious manner.

Thanks to everyone for being patient while we ironed this out.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Excellent, let's get this beast done.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Welcome back again Jaldon, I hope you can sort out all the variant lists and lock down a single set of stats and rules.
Author:  Moscovian [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Moko's in da house!
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Praise be to the ERC! Let the Bugs roll out!
Author:  frogbear [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Well it has been 4 hours. Is it finished yet? ::)
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
frogbear wrote:
Well it has been 4 hours. Is it finished yet? ::)

Seriously?!? What a lazy AC! J/K ::) ;D ;)
Author:  jaldon454 [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
What evil lurks in the hearts of man? The broodlord knows :o

Ok folks the job is done, and that was in under 24 hours ;D

We cannot hope to bang out anything, list wise, until we have a working set of special rules common to all of them.........period.

I am going to start by digesting all of the ideas posted thus far, so give me some time to do it, but I am going to say the following and I am ready for comments on them. That said these are the 'cardinal rules' I feel the list must follow.

(1) Spawning: This creates the 'endless horde of bugs feel' that is a vital part of the Nid list. It stays or it really isn't a bug list.

(2) Weak AA/Air: As Jervis once said, and I agree with him, an army list is defined more by its weaknesses then anything else. Anyone can design a power list, it takes talent to design one that isn't a power list. I know there is enough talent here to accomplish this task.

(3) Overall Low in Firepower: This doesn't mean that the Nids don't have ranged weapons worth the name. It does mean that a Nid player that tries to max out on firepower will lose every time they try it. One way to accomplish this is to ensure the Nid high firepower units are dead poor in assaults (both firefight and close combat) and dead meat if they are shot at. In other words they have to be protected from everything. This does not apply to units whose base weapon range is 30cm or less.

(4) Purestrain: Bugs are pure specialists...........period. Each bug type has ONE function in the swarm, if one wants flexibility it has to be built in at the swarm level and NOT in the individual units.

(5) Fixed Spawning: It has been too long that I have allowed the 'Super Spawn Shift' to go on, a problem I noticed a long time ago when I was in charge of the list. Basically a Nid player could use spawning to completely shift their point of attack, both during a turn and in between turns. Too many times I have seen opponents bust their noses off blasting a Nid flank into the ground during a turn only to have every killed Bug, from across the table, suddenly 'appear' right in front of them destroying all their hard earned advantage. It ends now and becomes more limited in flexibility.

Some concerns I have already quickly noted and will comment on.........

"It always seems that the Nid army is a bunch of little critters with a leavening of bio-tanks"

This, to me, is much like comparing the Ork Horde Army to the Kult of Speed Army. NOTHING says we cannot, or that the Nids wouldn't be able, to put together a different type of horde army. So the Nids can, BUT my feelings right now are we have to bang out the Little Critter Bug Horde List first. The others can follow on later. Does this mean individual players/groups should avoid trying to bang together another type of list? No, in fact I encourage them to experiment, and even post me a question or two on advice and I will answer. They will be the 'frontiersmen' laying the ground work for that list WHEN the horde list is done.

What about the Old Nids and the New Nids, what do we do?

One thing unique about the Tyranid Army is, unlike other armies of the 41st millenium, they evolve right before the Imperial Scholars eyes. We don't even have to rationalize the change from the old lists to the new lists because the GW has already taken that into account by allowing the Nids to quickly evolve while the rest of the armies remain pretty much stagnent by comparison. Combining the old and the new is sheer suicide, just too many units to try to play balance when we don't have to. Better instead to create two, three, or even four horde lists to cover the evolution of the Nid Army over time. For now I would like to concentrate our efforts on two very basic Old and New Horde lists, then lets see where that takes us.

What about the differences of opinion on special rules?

See that is my job, to make those tough decisions. Doesn't mean I am going to be right all the time, and heck those who have known me for a long time know I am smart enough to see it when I have been wrong. But it does mean everyone that wants this project to succeed is going to have to acceed to my decisions. This doesn't mean I have a closed mind once a decision is made, I can change it IF one can prove it was wrong, or a dumb idea, and I have had a few of those ::) Basically I will be providing us all with unity of effort by being the boss bug. I can assure all of you that working together we will accomplish much more then if we are always butting heads to get what we want.

I am looking forward to working, once again, with the old Epic Gronards and the new Epic posters here.

Cheers All,
Jaldon
Author:  frogbear [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Looks good Jaldon

Points 1-5 are good goals for the direction of the list. It would be good to finally gain some structure in all the chaos.
Author:  zombocom [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Nice to see things are going to get moving again. I hope we can all keep a compromising attitude in mind, and come up with solutions that the majority are happy with.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Good to have you back.
Author:  carlos [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Very positive post, thanks for coming in to make the tough decisions that need to be made.
jaldon454 wrote:
So the Nids can, BUT my feelings right now are we have to bang out the Little Critter Bug Horde List first. The others can follow on later.

I'd argue that one of the issues people have w/ 9.2.1. is that it is too much of a Little Critter Bug Horde List. So, in the spirit of getting people excited and doing lots of playtesting, wouldn't it be better to start w/ the Bugs of All Kinds Horde List?
Author:  fredmans [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Welcome aboard, Jaldon.

/Fredmans
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
frogbear wrote:
Well it has been 4 hours. Is it finished yet? ::)


:D

My thoughts exactly.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interim Tyranid Champion
Ahh good news :)
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