Tactical Command
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Zoanthrope Stats
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20218		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Zoanthrope Stats
The purpose of this thread is to agree on stats for Zoanthropes.


ZOANTHROPES

9.2.1

Code:
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
LV   15cm  5+     6+           5+

Weapons    Range  Firepower  Notes
Warp Blast 30cm   AP4+
       and (15cm) Small Arms MW

Notes: Leader, Reinforced Armour, Synapse.
The Zoanthrope's Warp Blast does not give it an extra attack; instead it adds the Macro-weapon ability to the unit's Firefight value.


Jormungandr:
Infantry
Jump Packs

Leviathan
Infantry
Jump Packs
Armour 4+
FF 4+
No Reinforced Armour
Invulnerable Save

Onachus - Note: represents the earlier, non-synapse, walking style of Zoanthrope. Onachus stats are not being consolidated.
No Synapse
Brood
Invulnerable Save
Walker
Warp Blast AP5+
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
The Onachus Zoanthrope is basically a completely different creature so won't be consolidated, but should probably be renamed.

Jormungandr and Leviathan both agree on Zoanthropes being Infantry.

Leviathan has a couple of stat boosts to the FF and shooting to represent multiple Zoanthropes on one stand. The armour and invulnerable save changes are to better represent the 40k stats (it has a 3+ invulnerable save in 40k).

4+ vs 5+ reinforced could go either way really, but an invulnerable save is sensible.

Are Jump Packs neccessary with Mobility?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Quote:
Are Jump Packs neccessary with Mobility?

Depends if you can imagine them levitating over lava flows or acid lakes or not.
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Also, Mobility doesn't affect infantry :)
Author:  arkturas [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Jormungandr doesn't have AP4+ shooting, it's MW4+ at 15cm.

It needs to represent 3 Zoanthropes
5+ RA and 4+ Inv are roughly equal for conventional shooting (0.56 vs 0.58) but the 5+ RA is better vs MW (0.33 vs 0.16) and 4+ Inv gets a save vs TK. I'd go with 4+ inv to get the MW weakness as the TK save is rare (as in why hit Zoanthropes with TK).
Jump pack could be dumped, they float but I can see lava being a problem.
FF4+ is a more useful trait than a ranged MW4+ shot, two approached to the same idea.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
WhES gives 30cm AP5+/AT4+ Lance (for AT only) PER Zoantrope.
As Zoantropes shoot as good as Marines i would assume at least 2 x shots per stand if you want to represent one unit of Zoantrophes by 3 models.
Author:  Ulrik [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
I had a quick look at at the current Nid 40k codex today, and Lictors, Zoanthropes and Biovores all come in squads of 1-3 individuals. I would say that these are all either light vehicles and infantry.

For comparison, attack bike squads are 1-3 attack bikes and have superior defensive stats to zoanthropes, biovores and (arguably) lictors.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Statwise, if Tyranid Warriors are to be infantry, then Lictors, Zoanthropes and Biovores should also be infantry. All of them are either easier to kill than, or on a par with, a Tyranid Warrior.
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Doh! Does this mean I have to take my old Zoanthropes and base them 3 to a stand?

Hmmm. Dammit!
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Quote:
Does this mean I have to take my old Zoanthropes and base them 3 to a stand?

Counts-as covers a lot of sins, especially in the case of the old Zoanthropes, which look nothing like modern Zoanthropes at all.
Author:  Ulrik [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Statwise, if Tyranid Warriors are to be infantry, then Lictors, Zoanthropes and Biovores should also be infantry. All of them are either easier to kill than, or on a par with, a Tyranid Warrior.


I'd argue that "easy to kill" shouldn't be the criteria of light vehicles, but rather how many models it represents. If it's a point target that's also vulnerable to anti-personell weapons, it's a light vehicle. I got no problem with these three being infantry, but I've got no problem with them being light vehicles either. As long as the stats reflect the number of models to a unit I see no problems with either.

With Warriors moving to infantry (and Raveners should follow Warriors), they might be a bit too vulnerable as LVs.
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Ulrik wrote:
If it's a point target that's also vulnerable to anti-personell weapons, it's a light vehicle.

This is how I look at it as well.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
When you get down to it, Lictors, Zoanthropes and Biovores are each about as tough as a single Ork Nob.

Ork Nob : T4, W2, Save 6+
Ork Mega Armoured Nob : T4, W2, Save 2+

Lictor : T4, W2, Save 5+
Biovore : T4, W2, Save 4+
Zoanthrope: T4, W2, Save 3+

Tyranid Warrior : T4, W3, Save 4+

So yeah, my point is that Tyranid Warriors are harder to kill than all of them.

They're also best killed with small arms type weapons, as your lascannons etc. need to be targeting the real big threats like Carnifexes & Trygons, not Biovores and Lictors.
Author:  Ulrik [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Evil and Chaos wrote:
So yeah, my point is that Tyranid Warriors are harder to kill than all of them.


Shouldn't matter. If it's a singleton, it's an LV, if it's a group they're infantry. Older editions of 40k had all these as single models moving around on their own, but later editions with the slightly oversized armies have them in small groups, but still allow single model units. Both is workable IMO. Lictor models are pretty big for being infantry, but they are supposed to be stealthy and can slouch down to hide among the gaunts.

A unit that represents 3 Lictors would have some pretty badass stats, and a formation of infantry Lictors would have a silly amount of Lictors (9-18 Lictors).
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zoanthrope Stats
Quote:
Lictor models are pretty big for being infantry

The 'nid plastics are generally over-sized, badly scaled for Epic. Truescale models would be noticably smaller.

Quote:
a formation of infantry Lictors would have a silly amount of Lictors (9-18 Lictors).

Sounds about right for a battlefield engagement, to me.
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