Tactical Command
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Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20181		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
Per discussions in this thread, the nearly unanimous conclusion is that synapse range is not a highly useful rule and can safely be removed. The replacement is a heavy penalty on Initiative for swarms that have lost their synapse creatures.

The front runner options are -2 Initiative with various penalties to victory conditions, including capturing/contesting objectives and/or counting as destroyed for other victory conditions (tie break, BTS) or a flat -3. This poll is strictly for-2/penalties versus -3. If consensus is -2/penalties, further discussion would be required to determine the exact penalties.

As always, these polls are not binding on the army champions, just a tool for gauging opinions.

I'll leave the poll open for 1 week.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
I went for -3 intitiative, no penalties, because the nid list is crazy-overstuffed with rules and exceptions to rules, let's have some simplicity, please.
Author:  fredmans [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
I voted for a straight -3 modifier. At the end of the day, if there are bugs swarming all around an objective, synapse or no synapse matters little.

/Fredmans
Author:  Dobbsy [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
I liked Fredman's view so voted -3 too
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
I think -2 without the ability to Contest or Control objectives is more "Nid ish" A pile of bugs holding objectives doesn't make sense if they don't know what there doing there....
Author:  Athmospheric [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
They wouldn't know why but they would still gut you on sight. -3 for me. KISS.
Author:  Man of kent [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
-2 for me, Only Synapse and independents should be able to contest.
Author:  Moscovian [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
-3 for simplicity sake and it matches the complete lack of worry on the part of humanity from the fluff when the Tyranids lose control.
Author:  Ulrik [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
I got no opinion on how big the penalty is, but may I suggest that it's worded as a bonus instead? I seem to remember that Jervis had a principle that special rules should give bonuses, as the player is more likely to remember a beneficial rule than a hindering rule. More a question of wording than of rules.

So for 1+ init, -3 for no synapse it would instead be base init 4+ and a +3 bonus if the swarm has Synapse creatures.
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
Ulrik: That system was used for chaos factions and never worked that well, in fact it led to more people forgetting about the penalties.
Author:  Ulrik [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
zombocom wrote:
Ulrik: That system was used for chaos factions and never worked that well, in fact it led to more people forgetting about the penalties.


Chaos uses this exact system? At least the NetEA draft has a +1 bonus for no hated formations within 15cm.

Plus it just feels better if the one who forgets a special rule is the one who gets the disadvantage.
Author:  MikeT [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
You're seriously suggesting that a Tyranid player would repeatedly forget about a +3 Init for having synapse in a formation, and would instead check against 4+ all the time?
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
MikeT wrote:
You're seriously suggesting that a Tyranid player would repeatedly forget about a +3 Init for having synapse in a formation, and would instead check against 4+ all the time?

No, the other way around. They would forget there are no Synapse and apply it even when they shouldn't.


Honestly, I don't think it matters how it's phrased. JJ's "only bonuses" design concept has been shown not to be all that great. What it gains in according responsibility for special rules to the controlling player is lost because it is anti-intuitive in some cases.
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
No, I'm suggesting that, like with chaos, everyone will automatically factor the bonus in anyway.

Nobody plays chaos as 2+ with a bonus, everyone plays it as 1+ with a penalty.


Anyway, personally I wouldn't word it as either; in the Leviathan list my wording was:

Synaptic Swarms have an Initiative Rating of 1+ if there is at least one unit with the Synapse special rule still alive in the formation, otherwise they have an Initiative Rating of 4+.

Neither a bonus nor a penalty, just two different ratings dependant on circumstance.
Author:  Ulrik [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
Ah, ok. I've always liked the "only bonus" concept, but I can see that it might not be all that.

zombocom wrote:
Synaptic Swarms have an Initiative Rating of 1+ if there is at least one unit with the Synapse special rule still alive in the formation, otherwise they have an Initiative Rating of 4+.


Seems like it could work. I'm thinking it would be nice for when a Nid opponent casually glances at the init ratings, so he doesn't just see "1+ initiative".
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