Alright guys, this is our starting point for the 'nid list in the Xenos supplement, it's 9.2.1 with some special rule changes and most of the "newer" 'nids stripped out (as it's meant to represent an early Hive Fleet with little exposure to our galaxy).

I'm going to break the list down into three developmental pushes that will be addressed one at a time over the course of two months each:

1) Special Rules
2) Unit Stats
3) List Organization

I'm doing it this way so we can evaluate the changes in a more controlled/compartmentalized environment. Once those are done there will be a six month testing period for play issues and cost adjustments.

Re: the changes present and those to come:

If you agree with a change, great. Post battle reports and show why it works. If you don't agree with a change, great. Post battle reports and show why it doesn't work.

I hope the common theme between the two is apparent enough.

That's pretty much it at this point. Obviously I'm hoping for this thing to be balanced in the end but I'd rather it lean towards under-powered than over-powered (hence the spawning change and no 1/2 guants rule at the moment). Please post all your questions, I proofed the document a couple of times and sent it around to people but I'm sure there's still errors and unclear language.

Hive Fleet Onachus v.0.1.1

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Squats 2019-10-17

If it's based on the older designs, the hierophant should be the smaller of the two bio-titans, with the hierodule the larger.

I was going by what was on the old boxes, smaller was the 'dule, bigger was the 'phant. I thought when FW made their 'dule the old one got bumped up to the 'phant, and the 'phant bumped up to the Hydraphant?

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Squats 2019-10-17

Meh, maybe I'm wrong.

Gaunts aren't worth taking without the 1/2 kill rule, I'd take gargoyles and raveners instead every time.
There are just so many special rules. I know most of them are inherited from 9.2.1, but still....

What does this list offer over 9.2.1? What's new?

Personally if I was doing a list based on earlier nid incarnations I'd integrate genestealer cult elements into the list, much like the 2nd edition 40k codex. That'd at least make it something other than "9.2.1 with the new stuff cut out".

I'd like to see a cult list at some point too but we're not going to be able to work it in to this list based on the fluff for the main story.

So nothing's new, it's meant to be a themed/limited list. More similar to White Scars and Speed Freaks than Siege Masters and Ferals.

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Squats 2019-10-17

which units are Resolute? I only see Brood and Fearless (pretty much everything is one or the other).

Has there been any decision on how Sniper in assaults is supposed to work? Also, are the 'stealers and Lictors supposed to have First Strike on all their attacks (as it's part of the unit datafax, not a weapon one)?

Nothing's resolute yet. The unit stat changes will go down in Dec.

Sniper in assault just confers the -1 armor save. Although I guess if you were in b-t-b with two units you could say where the hit goes.

And yes, First Strike on all the attacks in assault.

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Squats 2019-10-17

Dave, if you wish to include the Genestealers, you may. We don't have to write them into the fiction if it doesn't fit. I may actually write them in still although I haven't firmly decided yet.

As for the special rules, if you feel a rule can be stripped out, make a case for it. We're being open on a lot of things here and streamlining a list is always appealing. Part of your batreps can include things like "Rule X was hinky", "Rule Y flowed nicely", "Rule Z doesn't add anything to the game", etc.

The Stealers are in there, just not the hybrids, and cult units.

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Squats 2019-10-17

I've given the list a once over, and, sorry to say, I don't see the "point" of the list; other than the rules changes (which are getting changed in the next version of the core list) it's simply a limited subset of the v9.2 series. One could use the v9.2 series armylist to make any army the Onachus list could make (bar the location of Zoanthropes in the O-list, which really shouldn't be "brood").

The Speed Freaks and White Scars lists allow for different options and styles of play than the "core" Marine list, which makes them different and interesting. The O-list just appears to be a "restricted" v9.2 series list... why would someone want to limit themselves with it? It offers nothing new and doesn't allow for any different play from the v9.2 series. If this is a "themed" list, what is the theme?

I was under the impression that the Tyranid list for "Xenos" was supposed to be a Phase III variant, so an "early in the attack" style list to differentiate if from the Kraken and Leviathan lists in current development, which are later-stage and "new types" lists. A Phase III list should be focusing on the shock-and-aware of the initial Tyranid invasion: Lictors and Genestealers popping up all over the place, spores raining down from above, and lots of little gribblies running around. I don't see a Dominatrix nor Bio-Titans showing up in such a list at all. Such a list should have a higher proportion of "independents" and a Spacecraft raining down death-from-above!

I'll comment more in depth about the special rules shortly. (I *am* on vacation, you know! )

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My intention was to not make it too different from 9.2.1 for the first release. I'm trying not to throw the baby out with the bath water here, 9.2.1 has work and playtests for it that should be considered. As you said, WS and SF allow for different options, but I don't want to start throwing in new list org. options while special rules are getting tweaked at the same time. It would just be guesswork when we're trying to figure out the source of an under/over-powered effect.

The theme that we're working with here is an early contact list, so a hive fleet that hasn't come in contact with much of our galazies DNA. There's some other minor themes present within the list as well but I'll let Mosc. post on those as I don't know how much he wants me to let out with regards to the story-line.

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Squats 2019-10-17

I like the variations from 9.2.1

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

The "limited" or "pre-contact" theme of the list is interesting but it's used in a random fashion (Zoanthropes are Eldar DNA and Biovores are Ork so surely they need to be cut too). I'd also question Raveners, Exocrines and Dactylis.

Could you perhaps give a quick summary of why these creatures made it into the list and others didn't. I would go as far as saying that early Tyranid Fleets had virtually no ranged capability beyond the epic 15cm range (Hive War Supplement is an exception unless it also covers Kraken). I don't think you can do an early contact list without bringing in some new creatures.

I agree with Chroma. I can't see what this list is aiming at providing, other than muddy waters.

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Technically they were modified by Eldar DNA, but they existed in a very different form before, the walking, headcresty non-synapse version.

Biovores is a very good point though.

Also, as a first cotnact list, genestealer cult elements really should be integrated into the list. Plus that would actually give the list a point; as chroma says, right now, why would anyone play this over 9.2.1?