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Hive Fleet Creature Composition

 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:34 pm 
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It may be useful to go through Tyranid information available and to work out which creatures appear in which Hive Fleets. I assume once a creature appears it is available to any future fleets. I also don't have all the information. Also note that this is primarily useful if someone wants to have a themed list (Particularly early fleets like Behemoth)

Fleet dates
Behemoth - 745.M41
Kraken - 992.M41 or 993.M41
Leviathan - 997.M41

Behemoth Creatures
On Tyranid weapons giving the style of fleet as CC and short ranged.
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p9 - "... (though Tyranid weapons were limited to short range projectiles and close combat weaponry) ..."

Hive Tyrant
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p9 - "A mighty Tyranid Lord, huge as a Dreadnought..."

Genestealer
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p9 - "The only discovery of great note was that the Tyranids had employed Genestealers as shock troops."

Carnifex (Screamer variant)
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p6 - "... screaming giants with arms like great scythes ..."

Hormagaunt
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p8 - "Sickle-clawed beasts bounded forward ..."

Gargoyle
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p8 - "... others wheeled through the bleak, grey skies on leathery wings ..."

Lictor
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p8 - "The Mantis-clawed horrors slew dozens of auxilia troopers from ambush ..."

Warrior
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p6 - "The creatures were upright and six-limbed, clawed and fanged like fiends. The scattered defensive fire ricocheted off their thick hides and heavy carapaces like hailstones."

Termagant
Spike Rifles, Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p6 - Picture
Stranglewebs, Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p6 - "Smaller, scuttling creatures appeared in the enemy ranks and began to cast constricting webs over the Servitors and Tech-Priests..."

Ripper Swarm
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p7 - Picture

Harridan
Gargoyle delivery system but no mention to catagorically put it in the Behemoth fleet (Definitely in Kraken)

Kraken Creatures
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p49-51. At Viridian Prime, a Kraken Tendril
Creatures named - Warrior, Termagant, Hormagaunt, Gargoyle, Lictor, Harridan, Dominatrix, Spore Mines, Biovore
Weapons named - Bonesword, Deathspitters, Devourers, Fleshborers, Flamespurt, Bio-Plasma, Spinefist, Barbed Strangler

Due to ranged Weaponry I have put the following creatures as first used in the Kraken Fleet
Biovore

The following creatures have some reasoning or vague quotes for inclusion as first used in the Kraken fleet

Scythed Hierodule
Apocalypse Reload, p39 - Behemoth Crusher Brood - Almost certainly a mistake
Imperial Armour IV - Hamman's world - Kraken (E&C)

Barbed Hierodule
Imperial Armour IV - World attacked after Hamman's world - Kraken (E&C)

Tyrant Guard
SM DNA - Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15, Emperor's Scythes Space Marines and Lamenters all but wiped out, Kraken tendril

Zoanthrope
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15 - "... creatures which attack with bolts of psychic energy ..."
Eldar DNA - Post Iyanden, Kraken tendril

Carnifex (Shooter variants)
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15 - "... long range acidic projectiles which melt through steel like wax ..."

Trygon
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15 - "... electro-static blasts ..."
Imperial Armour IV - Kraken (E&C)

Dominatrix
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p50 - At Viridian Prime, Kraken Tendril
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15 - "... gigantic beasts as tall as Titans."
Possible lack of Bio-Titans in Behemoth, Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p8 - "Titans were dragged down and ripped apart by sheer weight of numbers ..."

Hierophant/Hydraphant
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15 - "... gigantic beasts as tall as Titans."
Possible lack of Bio-Titans in Behemoth, Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p8 - "Titans were dragged down and ripped apart by sheer weight of numbers ..."

Meiotic Spores
Imperial Armour IV - Anphelion - Kraken (E&C)

Malanthrope
Imperial Armour IV - Anphelion - Kraken (E&C)

Unknown hive fleet introduction

These creatures I haven't been able to find any references to them in background or stories related to a particular fleet. I assume they are all Kraken unless noted.

Ravener
From 40k codex introduction Kraken/Leviathan (BlackLegion)

Broodlord (Is the first planetfall Genestealer so either Kraken onwards or Behemoth if linked to Patriarch)
40k codex introduction suggests Leviathan (BlackLegion)

Assault Spawn
The Assault Spawn are all in the original Hive War supplement (BlackLegion) so could be Behemoth and would definitely be Kraken. Due to virtually no new information and only passing mention in Codex Tyranids and Apocalypse they could be legacy creatures that don't appear in recent fleets like Leviathan

Haruspex
Malefactor
Dactylis (probably Kraken onwards due to similarity to Biovore)
Exocrine (probably Kraken onwards due to significant ranged weaponry)

Edited to move creatures around and add supporting (Imperial Armour IV) evidence presented





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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Don't forget the Zoats!

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:07 pm 
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I guess all creatures available to Wh40k and mentioned in Epic Hive Wars denote what was available for Behemoth and Kraken (so Dayctylis, Exocrine, Haruspex and Malefactor where available for at least Kraken too).

All other creatures (Raveners, Malanthropes, perhabs Meiotic Spore Sacks) first came up with Leviathan (but Raveners perhabs with Kraken as they are first introduced in 3rd edition Codex Tyranids).
The Broodlord (which i see as a different genus of the Genestealer Patriarch)only came up with current 4th edition Codex Tyranids so are only available at the arrival of Leviathan.

Interesting inconsistency with the "Behemoth Crusher Brood".

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:20 pm 
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Quote: (arkturas @ Oct. 15 2009, 16:34 )

Scythed Hierodule
Apocalypse Reload, p39 - Behemoth Crusher Brood

"Behemoth" may simply be being used as a size descriptor here, rather than a background note.

IIRC Imperial Armour IV notes the Scythed Hieorodule as first being observed in the Hive Fleet that attacked Hamman's world (which was Hive Fleet Kraken).

Quote: 

Due to ranged Weaponry I have put the following creatures as first used in the Kraken Fleet
Barbed Hierodule

Barbed Hierodule was definitely Kraken, it was first observed on whatever planet the Hive Fleet Kraken tendril that attacked Hamman's World attacked next (can't remember right now).


Quote: 

Trygon
Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p15 - "... electro-static blasts ..."

Definitely Kraken.


Quote: 

Unknown hive fleet introduction

These creatures I haven't been able to find any references to them in background or stories related to a particular fleet. I assume they are all Kraken unless noted.
Meiotic Spores

Meiotic Spores were first observed on Anphellion, alledgedly in 850M41, which puts them as barely past Behemoth, but that's clearly a mistake by the author as Hive Fleet Kraken is specifically referred to on page 59 (and that arrived in 993M41, with Leviathan arriving in 999M41).

The Anphellion Project is also full of references to Hive Fleet Kraken and the encroaching Hive Fleets (multiple, not singular) in the Galactic East. It's clear that the date is a mistake.

Quote: 

Malanthrope (May be Leviathan)

Again, first seen on Anphellion, but quite probably present in all Hive Fleets so far.

Quote: 

Haruspex
Malefactor
Dactylis[/b] (probably Kraken onwards due to similarity to Biovore)
Exocrine (probably Kraken onwards due to significant ranged weaponry)

It is quite possible, likely even, that these creatures were present in Hive Fleet Behemoth and Kraken, but not in more recent Hive Fleets such as Leviathan.

The almost total lack of mention in the background and 40k would seem to imply this to me anyway.




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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:22 pm 
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Quote: (netepic @ Oct. 15 2009, 16:38 )

Don't forget the Zoats!

They were only available to Hive Fleet Collossus.  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:21 am 
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On Exocrine, Dactylis, Malefactor and Haruspex. The most recent information is three of those mentioned in the Tyranid Codex and the same three in the Apocalypse book (Dactylis is missing) so they are still there in the background just rarely mentioned in 40k. I think the new 40k codex is needed here to see if they are mentioned or apocalypse units appear otherwise. I could certainly see the Exocrine and Dactylis being effectively extinct in Leviathan and replaced by an ultra heavy carnifex with a bio-cannon or twin biovore launchers respectively. I can't see Carnifexes being fast enough to replace the Malefactor or Haruspex.

The Behemoth Crusher brood background text specifically mentions Hive Fleet Behemoth and that they had Scythed Hierodules.
"The infamous 'Crusher' Broods of Hive Fleet Behemoth were legendary for one thing above all - sheer brute force. Each Crusher Brood consists of several heavily armoured Carnifexes that attack in the manner of a living battering ram, often reinforced by the might of the lumbering bio-fortresses known as Scythed Heirodules"

I would be inclined to agree that Scythed Hierodules are a recent addition to modern fleet style "Crusher" Broods and weren't in Behemoth.

Another time gremlin is in Planetstrike (p55) putting a splinter fleet of Kraken at 849.M41


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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Thats only a minor time gremlins. Read Vraks 1 about when the Macharius Heavy Tank was invented and then look when the Siege of Vraks happened showing pictures of some Macharius Heavy Tanks :D

But as i said: All creatures mentioned until now are available to ALL Hive Fleets. Some may be extinct now (Dactylis) due to evolution but if a "new" Hive Fleet shows a new Tyranid creature then all other Hive Fleets will develope and use them too.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:13 am 
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Well January arives the new Codex Tyranids. There will be new creatures. Some names are Pyrovore and Toxatroph.

Here a picture of a new but unidentified creature:
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww35 ... eature.jpg




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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:14 am 
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That might be the psychic Lictor.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:11 am 
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Psychic Lictor?  :oo:

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:18 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Oct. 21 2009, 01:11 )

Psychic Lictor?  :oo:

You didn't hear it from me.  :grin:

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:47 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Oct. 16 2009, 16:55 )

But as i said: All creatures mentioned until now are available to ALL Hive Fleets. Some may be extinct now (Dactylis) due to evolution but if a "new" Hive Fleet shows a new Tyranid creature then all other Hive Fleets will develope and use them too.

I don't quite get what you mean.

1) New creatures are available to all currently active fleets (Leviathan, Kraken Splinter etc)
or
2) New creatures are available to all fleets including historical destroyed fleets like Behemoth and the lost fleets.

Psychic Lictor rumour has been floating around for a while. I'm interested in where these creatures fit in. Hybrids of existing creatures seems to be a theme.


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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:43 pm 
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I meant 1).
But older (not destroyed) Hive Fleets now get access to the new stuff too.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:37 pm 
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I'd always assumed they where different Hive Fleets, all floating in the same general direction of our galaxy.

Behemoth hit first and was annihilated.

Kraken hit second.

Leviathan hit from another vector shortly after.

Rumours of other hive fleets approaching.

Kraken and Leviathan have no connection as far as I can tell, how would they 'swop' unit types if they never meet. They may have the same 'core' units that evolved at some time in the past when both Hive Fleets splintered into two- probably thousands if not millions of years ago in an earlier galaxy.
But newer creatures evolved for this galaxy would be unique to each fleet.

Similarly Behemoth was annihilated so couldn't join up with Kraken and Leviathan to share material.


All this aside, I think this is a design dead end from an army list POV. People want a consistent, 'official' Tyranid list with the flexibility to field any list (much like Steel Legion, Ghazkghull Orks, Biel-tan Eldar, Space Marines).
Once that is completed, then feel free to refine or split of variant Tyranid lists with different styles, new novelty units and different emphasis (much like Scions of Iron, Siegemasters, etc).


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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Whatever new units arrive with the new codex would find a neat home in a leviathan list, without worrying the exisiting main list with having to keep up with 40k, much like the marine lists have done.

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