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| Tyranids OTT http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15843 |
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| Author: | Marked_by_chaos [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
Before I offend anyone I would add that I have not played against tyranids yet. However, reading the list and reviewing battle reports it seems that tyranids might not be as well balanced as some other lists. In particular the save/reinforced armour combo seems a bit off. As does some of the ranged attacks. I can see the idea of reinforced armour being a fair representation of the multiple wounds etc. that tyranids get in 40k and general toughness/regeneration esque characteristics. However, they surely should not get such high saving throws with it. I reckon that the combination of high damage capacity, save and reinforced armour is a bit OTT for many super heavy type units. Surely if they keep the damage capacities and reinforced armour the saves should be 5+ (4+ at best). However, things like trygons with DC2 and 3+ save with reinforced armour and 3+ AT are just way out of line and a prime example of creep in fan developed lists. Thats not to say that if such changes are made they shouldn't be re-costed. They just seem a bit too hard for a horde type force. I don't feel tyranid titans should be as hard as imperial type comparisons but rather cheaper and more expendable. I would be interested to hear an counter-point to this. If they are balanced I take it back. Would just be interested to hear the justification. |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
My counterpoint would be for you to play the list and then come back with your thoughts. Without playing the list, all you are doing is theorising which really has little effect on actually playability. When you lose the bigger titans (let's say a Dominatrix), you lose the BTS. Why should this be so easy? At the moment, it is easier to kill a Dom that it is a Warlord titan. How much easier do you want it to be? I find that the only way to keep my nids alive is to get them into cover and rely on some spawning at the moment. A few more games however will no doubt change my perspective on things. No doubt it will do the same for you. Play the list a few times, then come back to this discussion. Cheers.... |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
The Trygon has an invulnerable save, not RA. |
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| Author: | Marked_by_chaos [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
Fair enough. I was mainly interested to hear the basis for the  nature of the rules. I sort of assumed nid big creatures would be weaker than they are even if they are not rock hard now. After all judging by the gyphonne background there were pile of them for every warlord killed in return. Perhaps the reason for the rules is because of the cost of buying the armies in reality. I suppose in an ideal world the points would be lower, stats worse and you would have a genuine horde that had 2x the models of your oponent. I take the riposte arguements though,as stated I wasn't trying to attack nid players or the guys developing the list. Having not really tested them out though I am sort of reduced to theorising as its pretty unlikely that I will actually play them in person, considering the lack of local gamers. |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
First off, welcome to the Swarm, Marked_by_chaos! Thanks for posting! Tyranid war engines aren't shielded, so they're vulnerable to Titan-Killer attacks as soon as the game begins... and since most are armed with short-ranged weapons, they need to get dangerously close to the enemy to be effective... taking shots all along the way! If anything, Tyranids have been on a bit of more of the "losing" side lately... *laugh* We're working on that. |
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| Author: | Marked_by_chaos [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
I have to say these forums are pretty impressive. Its good to have such informed debate and replies. I suppose its symptomatic of the type of players who follow specialist games. I guess i agree with the other comments so far. I suppose there is no substitute for experience against/with the lists. Also I am perhaps judging the lists primarily against the original marine list who had limited macro-weapons and titan-killer. |
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| Author: | Jeridian [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tyranids OTT |
Indeed, but the Nid list must compete with the original Guard and Ork lists, both of which can pack intimidating Titan Killer and/or MW. -The Trygon is 3+ save (66%) -4+ RA is better (75%) Bio-titans- thinking of the increased DC as replacements for absent Void Shields is a good idea. As said, this makes them vulnerable to Titan Killers earlier, vulnerable to Criticals earlier, vulnerable to Blast Markers earlier. Nid Bio-titans compared to other titans are also severely lacking in firepower and range, again, as already said- they must therefore get very close. |
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