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3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15791		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mkcontra [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
I've got a couple games scheduled for tomorrow (hopefully they'll happen).  The first will likely be against a Titan legion with 2 imperators and warhounds (yawn).  The 2nd game should be against standard IG.

I intend on trying out the following list at 3k (3005 pts):
Dominatrix + 4 termagant clusters + trygon
Hive Tyrant + 2 Tyranid Warriors + Haruspex Cluster + 3x Hormagaunt Clusters
Synapse Node + bio arty cluster + 2x termagant cluster
3 tyranid warriors + carnifex cluster + Termagant cluster + Ravener cluster
3 tyranid warriors + 2 ravener clusters + 2x gargoyle cluster
3 zoanthropes mixed in wherever

5 activations (so at least I'll out-activate the titans).
I think it may be a bit slow, but we'll see how it goes.  Thoughts?
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (mkcontra @ 06 Jun. 2009, 18:29 )

Dominatrix + 4 termagant clusters + trygon

It does seem a little low on activations and the Gaunts with the Dominatrix just make the Dom's swarm vulnerable to AP fire... as War Engines can be "priority targetted" if the opponent desires; helps for size bonus when assaulting and for Blast marker management, but I think it's a pretty big weakness to give that swarm.

I'd use them to bulk up other formation.

And, if facing two Imperators... I'd say that's going to be a quick game, but please try to do a battle report for each game, if you can.

Handy Game Log Sheets you can use!
Author:  mkcontra [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (Chroma @ 06 Jun. 2009, 18:42 )

It does seem a little low on activations and the Gaunts with the Dominatrix just make the Dom's swarm vulnerable to AP fire... as War Engines can be "priority targetted" if the opponent desires; helps for size bonus when assaulting and for Blast marker management, but I think it's a pretty big weakness to give that swarm.

I'd use them to bulk up other formation.

I'm not sure I follow completely - I understand that the formation can now take blast markers from from AP fire, but how does this make the Dom any more vulnerable to damage?  She could always be assigned her DC in hits before any other unit in the formation whether they were vehicles or otherwise.  Could you clarify?  

Thanks!

I plan to take photos and hopefully give detailed reports.
Author:  Carrington [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Hm.. I recognize that army...! :(

Good luck with them -- nb. I never said anything about how well they rolled dice.
:)
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (mkcontra @ 06 Jun. 2009, 18:57 )

She could always be assigned her DC in hits before any other unit in the formation whether they were vehicles or otherwise.  Could you clarify?

A Leman Russ can only make two attacks against the formation if it consists of the Dominatrix and the Trygon, but can make *four* attacks against the Swarm if it contains infantry/light vehicles.

Many units have multiple weapons, some that can only hurt infantry and some just armoured vehicles... mixing the formation as you have listed above allows all those weapons to affect the Swarm.  

It doesn't make the Dominatrix more vulnerable, it makes Her *swarm* more vulnerable.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
But Blastmarkerwhise it wouldn't hurt her swarm if some Gaunts are killed.
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (BlackLegion @ 06 Jun. 2009, 20:57 )

But Blastmarkerwhise it wouldn't hurt her swarm if some Gaunts are killed.

Nope, in fact, having them around could usually be used to prevent the Dom from being supppressed if there were a lot of BMs on the formation.

The other vulnerability the Guants bring, is, depending on placement, that they allow the enemy to set up a clipping assault against the Dominatrix's swarm without having to actually confront Her.
Author:  mkcontra [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
So what we're saying is it's a trade-off.  I notice that the Dominatrix is one of the few chances for a solely vehicle formation.  However most of my formations will be vulnerable to both types of fire anyways due to warriors being LV, so there's not much I can do.  I think I'll give it a try and see how it goes.  Maybe having a large swarm that can soak some fire and spawn well can take the pressure off my warrior-based swarms. :rock:
Author:  mkcontra [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Well, that didn't go very well.  We weren't able to get the titan game in but we did play a game w/ Steel Legion.  After 3 turns, I had managed to kill 1 russ (Trygon!) and 4 stands of rough riders (Exocrines!) vs. most of my army.  Basically, my army was way too slow/short-ranged and I failed a couple of really critical initiative/retain rolls.  I'll try to get some photos and a more detailed list up.  

I did learn some valuable lessons:
- Keep bio-artillery mobile.  Attaching them to the Synapse Node was not helpful
- Nids need SOMETHING that can project power.  Whether it's flying creatures, lictors or whatever, they need to be able to harass while everyone gets into position.  
- Although huge swarms of more basic creatures are fun, there's only so much they can do.  I'll need to diversify my army selection in the future.
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (Chroma @ 06 Jun. 2009, 21:02 )

Nope, in fact, having them around could usually be used to prevent the Dom from being supppressed if there were a lot of BMs on the formation.

Chroma

Are you forgetting MW attacks? I would much prefer MW attacks to go on my Termagaunts than on the Dom. This is no more evident than the swarm vs Terminators in HTH.

I do take your point about the clipping assault however. It all depends on how far away those Termagaunts stay from the Dom I guess...
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (frogbear @ 08 Jun. 2009, 02:06 )

Are you forgetting MW attacks? I would much prefer MW attacks to go on my Termagaunts than on the Dom. This is no more evident than the swarm vs Terminators in HTH.

If it's shooting attacks, the opponent can declare that they are "firing at war engines" in the formation and ignore the Gaunts, so all the hits go against the Dom or Trygons.

In assaults, perhaps, but you assign "regular" hits first, and, if they wipe out the Gaunts, which they probably will, the MW attacks go on any remaining units... probably the Dom and Trygons!

And if the Gaunts are "close" to the Dom, then it makes a very tempting barrage target...

So, lotsa good and bad in there... you've just got to decide which risks you want to take!
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (mkcontra @ 08 Jun. 2009, 01:55 )

Well, that didn't go very well.  We weren't able to get the titan game in but we did play a game w/ Steel Legion.  After 3 turns, I had managed to kill 1 russ (Trygon!) and 4 stands of rough riders (Exocrines!) vs. most of my army.  Basically, my army was way too slow/short-ranged and I failed a couple of really critical initiative/retain rolls.  I'll try to get some photos and a more detailed list up.  

I did learn some valuable lessons:
- Keep bio-artillery mobile.  Attaching them to the Synapse Node was not helpful
- Nids need SOMETHING that can project power.  Whether it's flying creatures, lictors or whatever, they need to be able to harass while everyone gets into position.  
- Although huge swarms of more basic creatures are fun, there's only so much they can do.  I'll need to diversify my army selection in the future.

I am finding that the 9.2.1 list is very much more focused to having your Nidzillas in the army rather than the tooth & claw aspect.

You definately could have used some flyers. I find the Vituperator is a good source for protecting gaunts as (although a critical is a disaster)her save is quite good, and offers only one target to the opponent which do not include AP weapons. The fact that she is a skimmer also assist with impassable terrain, CC, and her Barrage at 15cm, while limited, is nice to have if you are doubling and are able to pop up for a 4BP barrage. Her and 9 bases of either hormagaunts/termagaunts/ravenors, is not an easy beat in any CC scenario.

I am also finding that the Harridan is quite a useful tool as a mobile harrassment unit who can shoot and CC. She will also increase your activation count and for a good price too.

I have yet to really get the Carnifex and other such creatures into CC. The 15cm move without a transport is a killer. It was alright in 3rd ed when they could come down in drop pods, but the hard slog across the table is a little wearisome for this unit.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (frogbear @ 08 Jun. 2009, 02:17 )

I have yet to really get the Carnifex and other such creatures into CC. The 15cm move without a transport is a killer. It was alright in 3rd ed when they could come down in drop pods, but the hard slog across the table is a little wearisome for this unit.

Led by a Hive Tyrant (or two) the Carnifex can garrison and be well forward at the start of the game.
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  3k Tyranids (hopefully vs. Guard)
Quote: (Chroma @ 08 Jun. 2009, 02:19 )

Led by a Hive Tyrant (or two) the Carnifex can garrison and be well forward at the start of the game.

If the opponent does not set up the objectives well over your centre line  :evil:  

This reminds me, has anyone had any success with Genestealers?

The only use I have had with them is that the opponent HAS to shoot them as they cannot be left to get into CC. Apart from this 150-200 point unit (with a broodlord) attracting fire that will go on other units, has anyone else found an effective use for them?

The one time I did get them into CC, terminators ripped them apart for only 1 loss themselves. Needless to say, I will never charge them by themselves at Termies again if I am relying on winning that particular CC.
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