Tactical Command
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Tunneling Nids
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15709		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  frogbear [ Fri May 29, 2009 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
OK, via 9.2.1 we have already been advised that the Planetfall ability cannot be used.

So how about tunneling? Can a non-synapse unit exist for 3 turns without the synapse? They appear on the third turn, somehow wipe a unit out. Now if they are not within 15cm of a synapse, do they die at that point in time?

If that is correct, without a synapse to meet and greet at the exposure point, I take it that these then become expendable kamikazi troops then?

1. Are there any plans for a future synapse tunneler?

I also notice that you can buy the tunneler squad out of the Independant points costs (a third of your force allowing)

2. Are they then considered independant and in no need of a synapse?

3. What is the difference in troops bought from the Common and Uncommon broods as opposed to the Independant group? They have the same stats and only a fraction cheaper (although the Trygon is the same cost).

4. Can the Trygon and Ravenors bought from the broods use their Tunnel ability? If not, why is the Trygon not cheaper in the Broods?

So confusing.... :_(
Author:  Chroma [ Fri May 29, 2009 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Quote: (frogbear @ 29 May 2009, 08:48 )

I also notice that you can buy the tunneler squad out of the Independant points costs (a third of your force allowing)

2. Are they then considered independant and in no need of a synapse?

Look at the section the Tunneler Swarm is in:

"Indpendent Swarms"

So, it doesn't require Synapse creatures to function.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Fri May 29, 2009 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Quote: (Chroma @ 29 May 2009, 13:37 )

Look at the section the Tunneler Swarm is in:

"Indpendent Swarms"

So, it doesn't require Synapse creatures to function.

Ahh. I see where it is now. I'm the one who had the confusion here. Still new to Tyranids, and missed "Unless part of an Independent Swarm, Brood creatures out of control range are removed" and instead just saw Brood being part of the stats for Raveners and Trygons. All good.

Don't people have a problem when Independant swarms with Brood units get close to Synapse creatures?

Also, Tyranid Tunnellers must nominate where and when the Tunnellers will surface in the same way as Drop Pods. Do they also deploy in the same manner? Nominating up to 15cm from the target point, and scattering 2d6cm, not into ZOC and moved by the opponent if it does?

Morgan Vening
Author:  Chroma [ Fri May 29, 2009 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 29 May 2009, 17:46 )

Don't people have a problem when Independant swarms with Brood units get close to Synapse creatures?



Morgan Vening

No more trouble than when two Tactical Detachments are hanging out together...  :vD

Also, Tyranid Tunnellers must nominate where and when the Tunnellers will surface in the same way as Drop Pods. Do they also deploy in the same manner? Nominating up to 15cm from the target point, and scattering 2d6cm, not into ZOC and moved by the opponent if it does?

That to is in the Tyranid document, listed under the actual Tunnelers special rule.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Fri May 29, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Quote: (Chroma @ 29 May 2009, 17:48 )

Also, Tyranid Tunnellers must nominate where and when the Tunnellers will surface in the same way as Drop Pods. Do they also deploy in the same manner? Nominating up to 15cm from the target point, and scattering 2d6cm, not into ZOC and moved by the opponent if it does?


That to is in the Tyranid document, listed under the actual Tunnelers special rule.
I don't see it. Unless you parse
"Write down the location where the tunneller will surface at the same time and in the same manner that you record the co-ordinates of a drop zone."
as meaning more than what is stated. It doesn't mention how it's deployed when it does arrive.

I only ask because the Tyranid player didn't see it that way, and placed his first unit directly on the nominated co-ordinates, possibly inside the opponent's ZOC*, without scatter. I couldn't find anything to dispute this, but brought it up because it didn't feel right.

Morgan Vening
Author:  zombocom [ Fri May 29, 2009 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Tunnellers do not scatter, this is an advantage compared to planetfall, but they have the disadvantage of only turning up from turn 3 in the opponent's board half, and must arrive at the start of the turn like teleporters, not as part of their activation like planetfall.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Fri May 29, 2009 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Quote: (zombocom @ 29 May 2009, 19:10 )

Tunnellers do not scatter, this is an advantage compared to planetfall, but they have the disadvantage of only turning up from turn 3 in the opponent's board half, and must arrive at the start of the turn like teleporters, not as part of their activation like planetfall.

Cool!

It doesn't help we don't have an original rulebook, and the Tunneller rules were removed from the online PDF's. Same as apparently either the Imperator or the Mega-Gargant were in the printed rulebook (though no points given).

So, does anyone know of a direct link to the 'as printed' Tunneller rules?

Does the first model appear at the point, or within 5cm of that point (ie, disembark)?
Do the rest of the formation have to be set up within 15cm of that point? Can these models be set up in ZOC?
Is there anything else that's important to know about Tunnellers?

Morgan Vening
Author:  zombocom [ Fri May 29, 2009 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
I believe the wording in the nid list is identical to the original wording, though I haven't checked to be sure.

As for where the units are placed; the original rule only really dealt with tunnelling transports, so a single model would be placed then guys jump out of it in their activation.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Fri May 29, 2009 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
This are the original Tunnellers Rules from page 168 of the rulebook:

This special rule can be used for tunnellers if
they are included in a scenario. Tunnellers are
set up on their own table edge before the battle
starts, at the same time that spacecraft are
deployed (see 4.0). Any units transported in the
tunneller are kept off table until it appears.
Write down the location where the tunneller
will surface at the same time and in the same
manner that you record the co-ordinates of a
drop zone (see 4.3.3). You must also secretly
record when the tunneller will surface. If it is
going to appear in your half of the table it may
arrive from the secondnd turn onwards. If it is
going to appear in the opposing half of the
table, it may arrive from turn three onwards. Set
up the tunneller at the start of the stated turn. It
and any units being transported may take an
action on the turn they appear.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Fri May 29, 2009 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
Quote: (zombocom @ 29 May 2009, 19:59 )

I believe the wording in the nid list is identical to the original wording, though I haven't checked to be sure.

As for where the units are placed; the original rule only really dealt with tunnelling transports, so a single model would be placed then guys jump out of it in their activation.

Ahh. So how to handle a squad of independent tunnelers, like how a Subbteranean Spawn is considered, aren't handled in that way.

Chroma, how do you intend for it to work?

Morgan Vening
Author:  zombocom [ Fri May 29, 2009 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
The sensible option is probably to think of them "disembarking" from the tunnel, so place them all within 5cm.
Author:  frogbear [ Sat May 30, 2009 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
so what happens if they burst up into ZOC in the moiddle of a unit?

1. Does the player or the opponent select the new point of entry or
2. do they not come up, or
3. is the opponent displaced like barging?
Author:  BlackLegion [ Sat May 30, 2009 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Tunneling Nids
I would say THE Tunneller is just a marker just as a DropPod. SO i would tread "disembarking" units just as per Planetfalling DropPods.
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