Not sure where army lists should go, if anywhere, so here goes.

My current 3k Nid list V9.1

Dominatrix
-2xBarbed Heirodules

Warrior x3
-10xGaunts
-2xGaroyles

Warriors x3
-10xGaunts
-2xGargoyles

Hive Tyrant
-3xCarnifex
-2xDactylis

Synapse Node

Lictor x3

Lictor x3

Heirophant

Heirophant

Genestealer x6

3000pts

Plan of action-

Lictors pop up turn 2-3 in the enemy backfield, to eliminate small support formations/broken formations and put pressure on the enemy Blitz objective and others.

Hive Tyrant formation garrisons ahead, in cover.

Dominatrix stomps down the centre, going for the throat.

Genestealers also garrison in cover, waiting for a suicidal charge, dragging something useful down with them.

Heirophants provide firepower, and close for engagements.

Synapse sits on own Blitz, holding it by sheer stint of being a tough bugger, and hoovering up any spare Brood creatures in the spawning process.

Warrior units, sit in cover, babysit objectives, hope the enemy doesn't look at them funny and slaughter them in engagements.

Does the Dom really need 2 bodyguard Hierodules?  The Dom is DC8.  The only real threat to it early is a formation of Deathstrikes.  The extra Hierodule is 150 points, which could go a long way towards another activation or buffing another formation.

Why are the Gargoyles with the swarms?  Gargoyles pay a hefty premium for their speed.  The swarms are slow, so that speed is largely wasted.  They won't be much use for stretching assault range because the rest of the swarm would still be mostly out of range and 15cm AA is virtually worthless.  It seems the main use for them is the extra countercharge range if the swarms are assaulted.  Is it worth the points?

Would you elaborate on the role of the Tyrant/Carnifex/Dactylis swarm?  This seems very eclectic, neither an arty formation nor an assault formation.  I could understand having a touch of assault ability to ward off strikes against the Dactylis, but 3 Carnifex seems like overkill.  I could also understand a bit of firepower in a Carnie/assault swarm, but Dactylis is an awfully expensive way to do that.

I don't understand the Lictor formations at 3 units each.  They seem to have a lot of drawbacks.  A 3-unit formation breaks with 1 kill, which is only ~2 hits.  That's very fragile.  They are so unreliable that they really shouldn't even be considered in the activation count for the army.  Going to 4 Lictors almost doubles the amount of firepower required to break the formation.  BMs from teleport affect that fairly strongly but I think it's worth the extra 50 points for the durability alone, even before you get to consider the added attacks and extra area coverage from the additional unit.

I don't understand the battle plan.  How do you picture that working?  The majority of it is either "sit and wait" (warriors and node) or "suicide charge" (Stealers and Lictors).  The Dom runs at the enemy, but it's not very fast so the enemy has lots of time to react.  The only strong maneuver element is the biotitan pair.  It seems to me the opponent is going to completely own the battlefield.  The elements of the army don't support each other so the enemy can isolate elements at their convenience.

Lictors are bordering useless if they are thrown out without support.  Due to the low SR they are too easy to shoot up and/or avoid even with Teleport.  Occasionally they are good for deepstriking to disrupt something like artillery, but for the most part their best use is in close proximity to the main thrust of the Nid army where they can hem in the enemy and add pressure.

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From my experience, Nids need to remain in mutually supporting positions at all times.  As you've noticed, static swarms are easy pickings for the enemy.  That means you have to make them pay for trying to grab the low-hanging fruit.  About 1/3 of the army needs to be fast - 25cm or more - so that when the opponent hits one of those swarms you can counter attack.

Also going along with that plan, you need to maintain a strong activation count.  You won't get to go first most times and Nids aren't great at retaining, so you need to have a decent shot at getting 2-3 activations in a row near the end of the turn.  That means swarms need to average medium size for total activation count while maintaining durability.

With just a few changes I think you can make this army a lot more effective.  My suggestions would be:

Drop a Hierodule from the Dom.  It doesn't need that much meat shielding.  You're going to have plenty of WE, RA targets.  The opponent will have a hard time concentrating their anti-WE firepower if you keep all the war engines as viable threats.

Buy a Harridan with the Hierodule points and move the Gargoyles to it.  This gives another fast maneuver element.  It also reinforces and benefits from the "WE overload" idea.

Make the Tyrant swarm either primarily assault or primarily arty rather than the mix.  Personally, I'd drop the Carnies and go arty.

Use the points from the Tyrant formation mod to buff the Warrior or Lictor swarms to make them a bit more durable.

Strategy:

Your ideal plan is to move forward with a coherent battle line.  Stopping is death for Nids, so don't do it.  Keep the maneuver elements close enough to the slow swarms that they can counterattack if the swarms are hit.  That will also mean they are close enough that you can move a swarm into support position and initiate an assault with the maneuver formation.

An ideal battle line might look something like this:

---------Swarm1----------Swarm2-------
----Titan1---Dom---Harridan---Titan2--


Deployment:  

The Stealers are bait and distraction.  Put them far enough forward that they threaten the enemy if they move too far, but far enough back that if the enemy can go after them if they are willing to over-extend.  If they go for it, crush them.  If not, your Stealers are buying time and room for maneuver.

A Tyrant Carnie swarm should be handled similarly, but due to its better saves and fearless means it can be more aggressive with placement.

A Tyrant-arty option should be kept pretty far back but in a position where it can fire over the main area of your army's intended thrust.  It should be used to prep for assaults or when an enemy formation is vulnerable, to finish it off (either breaking it or finishing it off with hackdown kills if already broken).  This is the Nid equivalent of "fire discipline."  Most of your offense is assaults, which are hard to concentrate, so firepower should be used primarily in conjunction with the in order to provide concentrated offense.

The Node on the Blitz is a good idea.  Another option to consider would be to put it just a bit farther forward.  That will depend on a lot of factors, such as terrain, where the enemy places the objectives in your board half, and the enemy's force composition.  However, a more forward position could possibly help greatly with area denial.  The enemy cannot stop too close to the node and would have to go around the formation if it were trying to penetrate into your backfield.  And, hey, if the enemy makes a mistake and places one of the T&H objectives close enough, you might be able to cover both with the node.  Just something to consider.

For the Warrior swarms and Stealers, look for what I call "alleys" of terrain that you can use to hop across the board.  Ideal is a corridor of terrain pieces 25-30cm apart so you can hop from cover to cover on a double move and still place BMs and support assaults.  Also, that's close enough that the enemy cannot jump into the cover ahead of you to stop your advance without being in assault range (where you want them).


Maneuver:

When moving the battle line, try to save the fastest formations for last in order to preserve your ability to react.  To a lesser extent you want to move your rearmost formations first because the forward formations remain more of a threat to the enemy.  That said, you have to balance that kind of choice against the possibility of losing an activation if the enemy hits the formation before it activates.

So... move the Warrior swarms forward.  As with the Genestealer garrison, it's okay for them to be a little bit far forward as long as the opponent will have to risk counterattack by coming after you.  Speaking of Stealers, you can keep them in place until later (if the enemy leaves them alone) to maintain a wide area threat while the gaunts advance.  They can strike at targets of opportunity or you can fold them into your gaunt line.  While the Dom does pack some firepower, it is still relatively slow and very tough.  It's almost better considered as part of the Gaunt line.  That also means it is not a bad option for a "stall" activation even though you might lose some opportunity to shoot.

The enemy will almost certainly come after you sooner or later and the faster stuff can counter attack.  However, if the enemy is still hanging back you can move them around the flanks or straight up the middle.  WEs always get their full attacks if 'clipped' and can stay close enough to the swarms (5cm) that it will be hard for the opponent to get much in range without drawing support from the swarms behind.

Basically, you're going to slowly invert the ideal deployment above.  That will put your fast stuff in front for area control and in the following turn(s) those slow swarms can move up.

Lictors - Lictors are great for creating a local activation advantage.  When the enemy ends up close enough that they are seriously threatened, that's the time to drop the Lictors.  That will boost the number of activations you have to attack or respond to the enemy in that particular part of the board.  They won't have the flexibility to deal with all the threats and something will get to take a shot at them.  Alternately, if you find that you have been outmaneuvered and the enemy has the local advantage, dumping the Lictors into that area can keep the enemy from capitalizing on it.


As you've probably picked up by now, the key is the local activation advantage.  Big, slow swarms can be picked apart by the enemy at will because they own that advantage.  The same applies to overly vulnerable deep strike formations like Lictors or Stealer garrisons used too aggressively.  Mobile swarms allow you to threaten larger areas and keep part of the battlefield from becoming a safe "kill zone" for the enemy's use.

Slower swarms are there to provide more area control through sheer bulk.  Their likelihood of getting in a good assault is low but they are key for creating opportunities for the rest of the army.  If they get an opportunity to attack, it will be because you used area control to herd the enemy or because you baited them.  Either way, though, take the opportunity.

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I don't know if any of that helps, but I hope it does.  I'm sure some people will disagree on certain aspects of that.  To be fair, I haven't played with the current list but those are my observations and developed strategies from many games in prior versions of the list and they seem as if they would still apply.

_________________
Neal

Very, very helpful, nealhunt.

One thing I'll add to Neal's excellent analysis:  The Dominatrix isn't really needed at 3000 points, She and Her two bodyguards are over 700 points... that's almost a quarter of your army in a single activation that the enemy *will* be hitting with every TK weapon they've got.

That many points can score you a couple more activations and allow you to boost all your other swarms as well!

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Looking at the 'nid list, the biggest problem with the 'trix is not that she's an expensive WE in a 3k list, but rather that she's almost 50% of a 1k synapse list.

I appreciate the advice and discussion, especially the in-depth treatise by Nealhunt.


First off, I'll try to defend my army list choices.

Does the Dom really need 2 bodyguard Hierodules?  The Dom is DC8.  The only real threat to it early is a formation of Deathstrikes.  The extra Hierodule is 150 points, which could go a long way towards another activation or buffing another formation.

Dom/Dules:  How often do you really have multi-TK that ends up beside or behind the Dom to bypass a single Dule?  I guess I could see it if you guys play with lots of WEs routinely and everyone loads up on TK.  I just wouldn't expect it most of the time.

I agree the SC Reroll and BTS benefits are nice, but that's still a lot of points and flexibility you're giving up for them.  Personally, I'm dubious as to whether it's worth it at 3000 points.

Gargoyle AA:  Fair enough.  I was thinking about how I would handle that force with one of my Ork tourney armies.  With Ork aircraft I don't think they would make any difference at all in what I did.  I'd be going mostly after AVs.  Any clipping air assault can easily avoid them as well.

Gaunt Swarms:  I lean towards a minimum of about 15 units.  I don't recall anyone saying 18-24 was too many but I do think much past that begins to get unwieldy.  I also recommend having a few Raveners scattered around for their armor saves in assault.

==

Harridan:  I'm a big defender of this unit.

Fast and Skimmer, they should never be exposed to TK weapons.  If you're in a big bug list, you should be straining the enemy's TK capacity for additional safety.  However, hiding is always an option by itself.

Harridans can engage effectively.  A Harridan + 4 Gargoyle formation can FF at 50cm range with ~3 hits and 8 units, which is a respectable clipping assault.  The optimum attack is to CC with the Harridan (potentially 35cm away), then have the Gargoyles pop out the back and FF.  The Harridan keeps its Zone of Control until contacted by _8_ enemy units so it's very hard for most opponents to countercharge past it to CC the Gargoyles.  An excellent Harridan attack sequence is to move close but behind terrain, popup/shoot, spawn in the end phase, and assault early the next turn with the extra spawned broods.  It's not a crushing Dire Avenger hit and run assault, but it is effective.  And it's pretty easy to pull off once your line is close to the enemy.

Don't worry about spawned gaunts slowing the Harridan down, either.  If the enemy moves away or you just decide you want to do something else, you can fly off and leave the slow expendable gaunts - "expendable" means destruction for being out of formation doesn't add BMs to the Harridan.  Of course, if they are within 20cm of another Synapse in the end phase they can spawn and dump the broods into the other swarm while they fly off.  It's not worth setting that up, but it is an occasional nice benefit.

Outside of assaults keep the Gargoyles loaded to benefit from the Harridan save and faster speed (obvious...).


Vituperator:  Everything above applies, plus it has tricks because of its transport capacity.  It can carry Warriors and broods, move/unload, then both synapse groups spawn and the Warriors take all the broods.  That's effectively a 12-unit transport.  Drop Lictors in next to that and you can drop a 1000 point, self-supporting set of Nid formations anywhere in a 75cm circle.  I've only seen this done once but it was moderately effective - mostly due to suprise, imho.

_________________
Neal

RE, the Dominatrix and Hierodule "BTS formation:"  I seem to recall 'nid 9.1 makes the BTS objective one of breaking/destroying half the 'nid synapses, rather than destroying the most expensive formation...

Which means that the 'trix would not be the BTS goal.

Yeah, I know, but it'd be almost half of it. Locked in a 4+ re-roll 6+Inv, with 6 4+ re-roll 6+ Inv bodyguard wounds to crack through.

Just had a game against Titan Legion and I think my Dominatrix bodyguards paid for themselves.

Each turn Titan Killer would fry one, and by next turn it would heave itself back up to take the next hit.
That would be one very dead Dominatrix otherwise.


That game did bring up some grumbles about the Nid list from my opponents (namely that they wouldn't run forward and die horribly as he wanted).
Basically, Spawning works better the further I am from the enemy, so I aimed to play defensive, use my numbers, endurance and regenerating spawns to hold onto objectives.

That is the silly thing about the current Spawning rules, I try to keep away from my opponents, whilst they try to rush into 30cm of Tyranids- very counter-intuitive. There is very little incentive for me to rush close- a combination of being easily killable and my opponent always going first in a turn, means rushing forward gets you gunned down and engaged and broken easily.

Anywho, a friend (Curis/Chris) suggested a change and I think it's genius.
The Spawning modifier for enemy within 30cm should be reversed, i.e. if you don't have a model within 30cm of an unbroken enemy your -D3.

1- It encourages the Nid player to close with the enemy (as is their background).
2- It encourages the opponent to flee, yet in doing so they give up ground/objectives.
3- There are far more circumstances where your out of 30cm than in it of enemy, so Spawning will only dominate if the Nid player manages to keep within 30cm (which opponents will avoid), rather than if he simply has to stay out of 30cm (which is easily doable).
4- It represents the swarm being 'docile' when no enemies in range, but getting into a frenzy when enemy are close, the Hive Mind calling out to gather more troops.

We also found taking 3 different saves (Reinforced and Inv) for various thinks a bit tedious.

The Lictor formations of 3 shined again, taking down a wounded Warhound and netting me a beer.

I still find Gaunt swarms a liability, they're relegated to holding home objectives whilst the Heirophants, etc do the work.

"That game did bring up some grumbles about the Nid list from my opponents (namely that they wouldn't run forward and die horribly as he wanted)."

Lol!  Always such a negative spin with you.  I just wanted a game.  Other than the battle of the titans down the left flank it was pretty dull.

Nids cowering in cover doing nothing except spawing, playing the defensive missions.  Yawn.....

I imagined titans desperatelytrying to shoot nids down before they swarmed all over them.  You know, dramatic, exciting stuff.

2 battle titans managed to terrify and cower almost all of your army - 2 massive swarms of gaunts, carnifex and tyrant and the WE/Dominatrix brood.  That's just not right.  I could practically assault at will, and clear objectives because i knew you'd lose with the gaunt fms and i took advantage of that fact to get you off the objectives.  Nids in my mind should be assaulting and even if they lose, retreating, re-spawning and coming back again, till they're dead.

I don't blame you for playing the way you did - it's the only way the list would have worked for you.  Next time out we should defo try half casualties for gaunts in assault.

Lol!  Always such a negative spin with you.  I just wanted a game.  Other than the battle of the titans down the left flank it was pretty dull.

Gentlemen, can we keep the "trash talk" to private messaging?  Thanks!

Also, thanks for you input on the Tyranids.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?