Greetings Broodlings!

The flamer template is a bit of an odd duck in EPIC... the template is included in the EPIC rulebook, but without any rules.  The Great Unclean One has one for its Stream of Corruption, but, again, no rules.

My question is this: Is the flamer template necessary in the Tyranid list?  Some oddities definitely come up when using it and some people have a hard time imagining weapons that could produce such a 'spray' in the EPIC scale.  Are we better off converting any existing "flamer" weapons into short ranged barrage point weapons?  Those rules exist and are quite well play-tested.  The strength of spray could be control with the BP value given, allowing, potentially multiple templates for real heavy hitters.

Currently, only three units in the Tyranid army have a weapon that uses the flamer template: the Dominatrix, the Vituperator, and the Hydraphant.  Only the Vituperator presents a potential issue as it already has a BP weapon, but changes to it can be examined.

Removing the flamer template rule cuts out another chunk of special rules, which is also a good thing.

Thoughts?

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I've changed from supporting them, to thinking they are perhaps unnecessary in Epic. A similar effect can be had with blast templates without needing another batch of special rules. Wouldn't be sorry to see them disappear.

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Well they can be easily subistituted with a boring BP-Weapon but i think the Flame Termplate is SO much more characterful.

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Go, definately. The list has more than enough special rules, and a consistent rule for the use of this template has never been found.

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I haven't used any units that utilize it yet, but I do think it's rather cheesy. I think a 30cm BP would be better.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Could you explain how it's "characterful" BlackLegion, because I'm not even sure what that means!

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

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Actually, I was thinking something along the lines of 15cm... with 4BP, one would be able to extend the "range" a bit.  I really don't want the weapons we change to be "medium-ranged" if at all possible.

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While it is "quirky", there is a tendency to want to keep it if we can fix the wording of the rules. It is not a special rule for the Tyranids as such, because there are a number of other races that also use it, notably Chaos.

As far as I can see, the only real problem that exists here is where there is a 4BP+ firing formation with more than one unit doing the firing - so you get multiple templates and multiple models. Since this is not the case for any of the Tyranid units mentioned, I don't think there is a real problem here.

Basically the Flamer template follows the barrage template rules except that additionally the template must also touch the firing model. The rules themselves are very simple - nominate the target, place the template so that the "pointed" end touches the firing model, and if it reaches the target, then you can shoot. If the target is a WE that falls under the centreline of the template, then it receives 1/2 DC hits. If you need to place a second template, that must be placed with the "pointed" end touching the firing unit and also touching the other template.

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I'd keep it.  It's "Charecterful" because not many other races use it; and i have an easier time of imagining a huge gout of acidic spray when the template is flame shaped!

The only problems that come up with the template that i know of are:
1) hitting targets behing war engines as they 'deflect' the spray
and
2) if you're allowed to fire the flame even if it doesn't touch the target formation

the answer to both is simple
1) Remove this rule! if we change to barrage then such a thing won't be a problem: it would be silly to argue for 'realism' in this case as the Barrage would just be an abstraction anyway and we'd still all KNOW that it's a breath weapon. This besides such situations rarely come up.

2) No: you're not allowed to.  Simple; the weapon isn't in range of the target so it can't be fired. That just needs making explicit in the rules. EA doesn't need so much abstraction that we lose simple and characterful rules such as this one.

JUST my tuppence,
R>

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15cm and BP will replace 90% of the effect of flamer templates without the need for a new mechanic.

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Neal

15cm is even better, I only suggested 30 because I thought people would cry out at 15.

Agreed, 15cm at 4BP would give similar results to a flame template. Especially if it was ignore cover.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

I really don't think the template is necessary.

I'd be happy with a 15cm 3 or 4BP weapon. 3BP, Ignore Cover would make sense IMO.

The current Bio-plasma Breath weapon is a Macro Weapon... are you advocating changing that to ignore cover or to *combine* it with the MW property?

Personally, I'd rather not combine the two... having those two properties together was one of the "bad" things in the Black Legion list.

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The ignore cover simulates the 'splash' of the weapon I guess. MW and Ignore cover is something that should either be pointed correctly or avoided. Point this up and see how it feels.