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| [Playtest] Abusive Builds http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=14152 |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Greetings Broodlings! I'd like people to put together what they'd consider "abusive" or "broken" lists, using the current v9.1 rules. Initially this is just a "Theoryhammer" exercise, but I'd like to see if there's any commonality in thought, or glaringly obvious problems... that I've missed. *laugh* And, maybe, just maybe, we'll be able to actually playtest them and get some info. Thanks! |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
To save me having to look at the list can you still do WE armies like you could a few months back when me and Gavin gave them a go? |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Yeah, I'd imagine the list with 48DC of war engines (or whatever the daft number is) is a pretty unbalanced build. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
There was some talk about how to limit it here on the second page: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....37;st=0 I think the idea was to limit the bio-titans in the list (whether Dom., Harridan, Vitu., or the independents) to 1/3 of the army. For a 3k WE maxed list you could do this: 1000 5 Harridan (20DC) 400 1 Hydraphant (8DC) 550 2 Heirophants (12DC) 300 6 Hormagaunt Clusters 600 3 Trygon Clusters (2 each) (12DC) 2850/8 |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
52 DC is never going to be balanced. Guard can get similar numbers, but that's silly too, so it's no excuse. |
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| Author: | Tiny-Tim [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Quote: (Dave @ 08 Dec. 2008, 15:08 ) For a 3k WE maxed list you could do this: 1000 5 Harridan (20DC) 400 1 Hydraphant (8DC) 550 2 Heirophants (12DC) 300 6 Hormagaunt Clusters 600 3 Trygon Clusters (2 each) (12DC) 2850/8 Ouch, so the minimum number of common broods have been dropped. Surely just ading this back in will lose the overly WE heavy lists. But haven't been keeping up with this recently to know the reason why the above restriction was dropped. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
You have to purchase 2 common for every 1 uncommon. 1 Trygon clusters lets you take 1-2 Trygons though. What I thought Jaldon was going with (right after he called me a baby  ) was an across the board limit on bio-titans. In addition to the 1/3 for independent and 1/3 for synapse restrictions. |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Quote: (Dave @ 08 Dec. 2008, 15:37 ) You have to purchase 2 common for every 1 uncommon. 1 Trygon clusters lets you take 1-2 Trygons though. Well, maybe turning the "lesser War Engine" clutches to "1 per Clutch" will tone it down a bit. Additionally, Trygons aren't fearless, so clipping assaults, or skimmer assaults aimed at ablating Hormagaunts, are going to kill a lot of big beasties in play... and it's going to be hard to get them back. Anyone want to play a game with the above list and see how it swims? (Add 150 points of whatever you like! *laugh*) |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Quote: (Chroma @ 08 Dec. 2008, 15:44 ) [quote="Dave,08 Dec. 2008, 15:37 "] Anyone want to play a game with the above list and see how it swims?  (Add 150 points of whatever you like! *laugh*) I'll see if E&C's interested in trying it out. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
You could replace the Hormagaunt with Termagants if you want some FF and support ability and bring the list up to 3k. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
We were doing 'proper' super heavies (titans, titan synapses, enough cheap synapse to bring activation count up), mostly against I think salamanders and getting the rule wrong making the nids weaker and they still we unstopable. Its like a WE list with none of the limitations built in. Did we do bat rep now on this? Can't remember. Anyway I thought it had been stopped/limited. Not really interested in doing it again, simply wasn't much fun. Can try and figure it out again in a bit. Independant Hydraphant Hierophant Hierophant OR Hydraphant Hydraphant 4 lictors OR Hierophant Hierophant Hierophant 3 lictors I prefer the 3 hierophant option, gets me numbers, ranged firepower, speed and lictors for turn 3 objective grab. Synapse Dominatrix Synapse node Harridan Hive Tyrant Hive Tyrant OR Vituperator Synapse node Harridan Harridan/ 2 single hive tyrants Nexus group Split between them. Like having a dominatrix despite the dodgy name. Numbers vs WE. I do like Vituperator though. Tis a beast. Then of course brood stuff to taste. I tend to horde here and/or provide cover for the hive tyrants. Getting WE here I'm not sure about the effectiveness off. Rather just swamp the enemy with all unit types (we and non). |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Okay, so "heavy war engine" armies appear to be an area of concern... is this specific to the Tyranid list, or just a general difficult with "lots of war engine" armies? What if the Brood War Engines *didn't* benefit from the "Expendable" rule, to represent the fairly significant blow of losing such a large creature? Any other builds that appear to be a cause for concern? |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | [Playtest] Abusive Builds |
Quote: (Chroma @ 08 Dec. 2008, 23:13 ) What if the Brood War Engines *didn't* benefit from the "Expendable" rule, to represent the fairly significant blow of losing such a large creature? That should really be the case no matter what. The hive mind WILL care about losing so large a creature. |
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