Tactical Command
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Did I spawn correctly?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13453		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  daemonkin [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
Ok so had my first game with my Nids last night. Part of campaign using the Bell of Lost Souls Warhammer 30k Heresy campaign. We adapted to use Epic, Aeronautica and BFG as well as 40K. This game was the first battle on Murder(Horus Heresy Books) using nids as the Megarachnid xenos.

Anyways, my army (4k - v 9.0 with spawn changes) was:
2 Hierophants
1 Lictor brood (6 stands)
1 Stealer brood (8 stands)

Hive Group
Domi
Gargoyles
Raveners
Carni

Assault
3 warriors
Terma
Terma

Attack Group
2 Tyrants
2 scythed Hierodules

Attack
1 Tyrant
2 Dactylis
Hormagaunts

Harridan
Hormagaunts

Nexus
Tyrant
2 Warriors
2 Trygons

Assault
3 warriors
gargoyles
terma
2 haruspex

This was a list based on what I had available (proxying where appropriate)

Anyway, If I did it right at the start of the end phase each swarm rolls 3 D3's -1D3 each for either within 30cm and/or if broken.

This did seem right as the swarms near the enemy could not respawn as much and those further back were able to respawn and feed the advancing swarms. We found that even though the synapse were all fearless if I left them where they were broken then the chances greatly decreased of getting them up to anywhere near a threatening brood for the next turn.

Anyway, great game and eventually the marines were defeated (historically accurate too!)

D.

[edited for clarity]
Author:  Dave [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
As long if by -1 you mean "roll one less D3", then yes I believe that's what Jaldon had in mind.

I played a game with 9.0 and all of the new changes and found the same thing as well.  Moving your synapse at least 30cm away from the enemy is needed.
Author:  daemonkin [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
Now that I have a taste for it I can't wait for the sequel. But I think the next 2 games will be either 40K or BFG.

D.
Author:  jaldon454 [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
For Clarity here is the updated Spawning Rule

Spawning
Replace the first paragraph with the following.

"Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return Brood Creature units into play that have been destroyed, removed from play, or held in reserve. In the End Phase, after all rallying has been completed, the tyranid player rolls 2D3 for each Synapse Group in the army (Except for the Dominatrix which rolls 3D3), deducting from the number of dice rolled using the modifiers listed below. The total on the dice rolled is the spawning points available for that swarm to use to return Brood units back into play. Each Brood unit has a Brood value that must be paid before the unit can be returned to the swarm. The Tyranid Player must finishing spawning and for a swarm before moving on to carry out the spawning for the next swarm. This procedure is carried out until all Swarms have made a spawning attempt (Note a player is not required to Spawn they may pass on a Swarm and not spawn for the turn).

Modifiers Deduct one dice for each of the following modifiers from the total available to the Synapse Group.
Enemy within 30cms of any unit that is a part of the swarm.
The Swarm is broken.

Anyway, If I did it right at the start of the end phase each swarm rolls 3 D3's -1D3 each for either within 30cm and/or if broken.

Note above that all the Swarms use 2D3, not 3D3, except the Dominatrix which uses 3D3

In any case we have played a good number of games using the v9.0 list with the changes and have found them to be working well. Swarms find it harder to maintain their place in the frontline as losses mount, broken swarms have to fall back to get a decent chance at rallying and spawning to get back into the fight, and most of all turns are ending with Nid creatures still in the dead tray. No kidding I actually beat a Nid army using White Scars :D

Note I did NOT say the Nids are ready to take on the world, I wish to playtest some more, but the outlook is very bright at the moment. That is often the time when the roof caves in :mad:

Thanks All..........

Jaldon :p
Author:  Dave [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
I'm assuming your tests showed that 2d3 was sufficient for swarms without synapse values being added in as well? That was my gut instinct after playing a dozen games with 8.4m as well.

I played one game with all your suggested revisions (3d3 spawn though) and felt things went pretty well despite my loss to IG. The army is frustrating to some degree now with the new rules.  I see this as a good thing though. It's time to relearn strategies.
Author:  jaldon454 [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
I'm assuming your tests showed that 2d3 was sufficient for swarms without synapse values being added in as well?

That is correct NO SYNAPSE values were added in, it was just the straight 2D3 rolls.

I played one game with all your suggested revisions (3d3 spawn though) and felt things went pretty well despite my loss to IG.

High firepower armies, like IG, will give Nid players fits under the present v9.0 with the changes suggested. So far only Jack has managed a win against IG, in three games played against IG thus far, and it was his mad hatter swarm of nine Carnifexes that did the deed to the IG wiping out a Mech Company and an Artillery Company in two turns.

The army is frustrating to some degree now with the new rules.  I see this as a good thing though. It's time to relearn strategies.

Yes, it is and I agree it is a good thing as players will now have to re-think the tactics they are going to need to use.

My own Nid army has had its ups and downs since I made the changes to v9.0, but I am not disappointed in that. Before the changes I really didn't have to think ahead with the Nids, I just set the pace of the battle and then let the minis fight it.

Now opponents can knock my Nid Swarms off balance by concentrating their forces at a single point. Then it is either break them before they can exploit it, or pull up and try to seal off the breach. Now I find myself having to think a couple of activations ahead or risk getting out foxed, I find this more exciting then earlier versions of the list.

In one interesting game, I was the judge, Bob's Eldar faced off against Jack's Nids (To be fair to Jack it was only his second outing with v9.0 with the changes). By the end of turn two only Jack's Carnifex Swarm was still in the front lines, and he struggled to get back into the battle for the next two turns, ending in a 2-1 Eldar win. If Jack could have forced a fifth turn or a tie breaker he would have easily won as the Eldar strength kept dropping while his was slowly growing. In any case Jack was never able to get all his commons back onto the table, and found it difficult to get any of the swarms back up to near their full starting strength. This 'felt' right, to me.

Thanks All...........

Jaldon :p
Author:  Dave [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
Quote: (jaldon454 @ 08 Sep. 2008, 22:27 )

it was his mad hatter swarm of nine Carnifexes that did the deed to the IG wiping out a Mech Company and an Artillery Company in two turns.

...

How did a swarm like that get anywhere near a Mech or Arty company?
Author:  jaldon454 [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Did I spawn correctly?
How did a swarm like that get anywhere near a Mech or Arty company?

Good question but it was asked the wrong way, it should be how did Jake let the the Carnifex Swarm get anywhere near his Mech and Arty Company?

Jack sent the Carni Swarm up left center through some woods and closed to within striking distance of a Mech Company that had already activated for the turn. Jake attempted an FF assault to drive them off, rolled pretty badly and was himself driven off. In turn three the Nids won the initiative roll and Jack naturally activated the Carni Swarm, which promptly wiped out the Mech Company. After its consolidation move the Swarm was easily within striking distance of the Artillery Company.

Jake was now between a rock and a hard place as he needed the artillery to fire this turn at something besides the Carni Swarm, or move. He decided to IDF the Arty Company convinced he couldn't possibly fail a second time to drive off the Carni Swarm in an FF assault, nor fail to get the initiative a second time. Sad truth is the second FF assault failed, and he did lose the initiative roll in turn four.

The arbiters of justice (dice) just weren't with Jake that day.

I didn't say Jack succeeded by any test of skill, however he has a tendency to shove the Carni Swarm right at opponents to throw them off balance, and he is good at picking that sensitive point to do it at. He also does a pretty good job, in general, at using terrain to effectively minimize enemy fire.

Thanks all..........

Jaldon :p
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