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Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
Original v9.0 rules 100%  100%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 3

Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
jaldon454
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:04 pm 
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Comments can be posted, so please do :yes:

Hey how come it switched the poll questions list on me :sigh:

Ok I moved the post stuff around to match the poll questions ???

(a) v9.0 Original
As stated the v9.0 as it is presented

(b) Fixed
The spawning values are fixed by Synapse type and then modified for situation

Assault Group x5 SP
Attack Group (x1 HT) x5 SP
Attack Group (x2 HT) x6 SP
Harassment Group x5 SP
Hive Group x8 SP
Infestation Group x6 SP
Nexus Group x6 SP
Strike Group x6 SP
(Note SP equals Spawning Points)

Modifiers to above
-2 SP If Swarm Broken
-2 SP If Swarm within 30cms of enemy

© v9.0 Modified
As v9.0 but Swarms that are both broken and within 30cm of the enemy cannot spawn

(d) Random Spawning
All Synapse get 3D3 for spawning except the Dominatrix which gets 4D3 The total of the rolls is the spawning points available. Rolls are made for each swarm, and units spawned, in turn before moving to the next swarm.

Modifiers
Broken -1D3
Enemy within 30cm -1D3

Jaldon :p




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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Quote: (jaldon454 @ 08 Aug. 2008, 11:04 )

(b) Fixed
The spawning values are fixed by Synapse type and then modified for situation

This looks like a good idea but it needs to be simplified. Currently it looks like you'd need a checklist to figure out spawning.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:42 pm 
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As earlier,

a) I can live with the current v9.0 though it does seem to give too few points. But others find the process cumbersome.

b) Fixed points is evidently calculated on the 2D3 average added to the relevant synapse spawn points. As the current variance is +- 2, this seems a lot of effort to get some variation - so KISS gets my vote.

c) v9.0 modified gives too few spawning points IMO especially as most warms spend the entire game within 30cms of enemy units.

d) Random 3D3 / 4D3 is IMO, too random and wide a range (3-9 and 4-12), though with luck (or loaded dice) this would make it likely that we could spawn the expendable WE.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Quote: (pixelgeek @ 08 Aug. 2008, 19:39 )

Quote: (jaldon454 @ 08 Aug. 2008, 11:04 )

(b) Fixed
The spawning values are fixed by Synapse type and then modified for situation

This looks like a good idea but it needs to be simplified. Currently it looks like you'd need a checklist to figure out spawning.

How so? The spawning points are currently listed on the Bugs stats - they would just be changed to reflect the new values. You already have to refer to the DC values, and this wouldn't be any different would it??

And I don't know how you could get them any simpler that this; perhaps you could expand?

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 08 Aug. 2008, 11:45 )

How so?

Correct me if I am wrong but the above list is of SPs based on formation type?

And wouldn't Nids spawn *more* troops when closer to the enemy? Shouldn't it be harder to spawn when there is no compelling target for the creatures being spawned?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:45 pm 
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Any way to vote for one universal roll with a simple +1 for one or more types? (Say in the unit notes Synapse +1.)

Otherwise if C ) is "Global roll where broken swarms, or swarms within 30cm on the enemy use the lower of the dice. And where swarms that are broken and within 30cm do not spawn." I am all for that.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:06 pm 
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I've been a fan of 'fixed' spawning for a while now.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:52 am 
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Quote: (pixelgeek @ 08 Aug. 2008, 19:52 )

Quote: (Ginger @ 08 Aug. 2008, 11:45 )

How so?

Correct me if I am wrong but the above list is of SPs based on formation type?

And wouldn't Nids spawn *more* troops when closer to the enemy? Shouldn't it be harder to spawn when there is no compelling target for the creatures being spawned?

Umm - I was under the impression that the spawning restrictions were there to represent the results of the frenzied firing by the enemy against the 'avalanche of bugs'. So you get fewer bugs spawned near the enemy (and it also gives them a better chance of survival). However, a key concept is that synapses further back can spawn and then feed the new bugs forward to the advanced swarms.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:03 am 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 08 Aug. 2008, 17:52 )

However, a key concept is that synapses further back can spawn and then feed the new bugs forward to the advanced swarms.

This might be the case but I can see every person I game against asking that same question.

It doesn't make much immediate sense and it also factors in gameplay results into the effect.

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jaldon454
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:01 am 
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This might be the case but I can see every person I game against asking that same question.

It doesn't make much immediate sense and it also factors in gameplay results into the effect.


I am going to go with whatever becomes the majority in the poll as we could go back and forth on the exact mechanics for spawning till the end of days. The use of modifiers to that spawning, or a lack of any modifiers, can be done after the poll results are all in. Basically we can try it with and without and decide which fits best. This is not to put an end to any discussion on the subject, only that posters should remember to enter in poll results.

I am going to give it a couple of days, maybe more, but when the Poll starts to flat-line, no entries for a couple days then I'll close it.

PG, while I do understand your logic it can also be looked at from another angle. Please bear with for a moment and then cut me to ribbons :sus:  (You know how ornery I can be  :upside:

Basically the Nid Swarms on the move against little or no resistance take very little effort for the Synapse creatures to control, hence they can expend effort to gather in the wandering creatures. (Remember spawning represents the addition of new bugs via Pods dropped in from space AND the Synapse creatures spending effort drawing in the creatures that have gone to ground earlier in the battle.)

However when the shooting starts the need to maintain firmer control over the swarm is going to become vital to the needs of the operation being carried out by the Synapse creature and the Bugs they are directing. No longer do the Synapse creatures merely have to make sure the bugs move in the same direction, but they have to actually attempt to maneuver them within the confines of their battle area. For sure they can take advantage of the natural instincts of the bugs they command to lessen the amount of 'orders' they need to convey, but they cannot let even this go too far or they will lose control of the swarm entirely.

Simple maneuvers like move to this point and then go natural to attack the flank, or ignore these forces penetrate to this point then go natural to attack a more sensitive enemy unit (Most commons have Infiltrate), all require far more effort to be expended, by the Synapse Creatures, then what would be needed to simply move the Swarm from point 'A' to point 'B'.

The point is the more resistance the Swarm is facing, the more effort the Synapse creatures need to expend to maintain control over the swarm (Being Broken and Enemy proximity are good ways to reflect this needed extra effort), hence the modifiers. The less resistance the Swarm faces the more effort the Synapse creatures can expend culling in the bugs that have gone to ground.

Ok there is a rational for the modifiers.

The bullseye is now up, start shooting (As Jaldon ducks for cover)

Just my two cents really as I am not 100% sure we will use them in the end (Modiofiers), but a rational for it doesn't hurt.

Thanks All......................

Jaldon :p

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epilgrim
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:11 am 
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call me crazy, but I'd like to think that the effect of being broken (disorganized) has a negative impact on the focus of the hive mind.

the latest changes are really good for the list, giving the tyranids something to do besides run at the opponent blindly.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:41 am 
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Quote: (jaldon454 @ 08 Aug. 2008, 21:01 )

PG, while I do understand your logic it can also be looked at from another angle. Please bear with for a moment and then cut me to ribbons :sus:  (You know how ornery I can be  :upside:

I don't disagree with the logic of it. Not at all. It just fails the "immediate reaction" test.

If anyone cares about that is another matter :-)

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scarik
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Jaldon, that's a great argument for why BMs should affect Nid swarms in the normal way, since that sounds an awful lot like morale.  :))

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Dave
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:21 pm 
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They do effect them in the normal way now (they suppress units and can break formations).

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Dave
 Post subject: Nid Spawning Ideas POLL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:35 pm 
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Quote: (jaldon454 @ 09 Aug. 2008, 00:01 )

I am going to go with whatever becomes the majority in the poll as we could go back and forth on the exact mechanics for spawning till the end of days.

If the entire community was testing these rules then I would say fine, go for it. But as that is not the case I'm strongly against letting the results of this poll determine the future path of this list. Stuff like this needs to be tested and felt out by someone before they should be allowed to weigh in.

That probably sounds more than a little elitist but if there's one thing I learned from the polls I ran last winter for the Steel Legion its that they are not indicative of feelings of the entire epic community.  Once more, polls let anyone with an opinion weigh in.  And you know what they say about opinions...

Let's test some of these options. Are we really in a hurry to get this list finalized?  Considering the SG site isn't getting updates I don't see the point.

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