As I was burning my Lab down today (well the students aren’t around to do it).  I started thinking about the army composition and its complexity.

I know that it isn’t too complex but it sounds it.

I can have 1 bio titan per 3 synapse creatures, however this also comes out of my independent points which is no my than 1/3 of my army.

Now I need synapse creatures, enough to get my titans, but no more than 1/3 of my army.

Right I now bulk up on gaunts and snakes, okay good now no limitations on this.

Finally to add some muscle.  Lets see I now must count my common brood groups and half the number to get the number of uncommon I am allowed, then see which ones are more value for money.

So I thought about what nids are best at (after being banned from all you can eat restaurants) and that was evolution, or nicking other races ideas.  So I thought about what we could nick from other races and came up with an idea based on Ork and Imperial Guard force organisation.

Firstly you buy a synapse group.  This automatically comes with a few brood creatures and the ability to purchase other creatures, but some purchases are limited.  They can also purchase more synapse creatures and these have their own extras they can buy.  So the list would look something like

Dominatrix + 6gaunts (any type including gargoyles)
+ any number of gaunts
+ 0-4 Raveners
+ 0-4 Zoanthropes
+ 0-3 Heriodules/tyrgons
+ 0-4 Carnifex
+0-2 Dactylis/exocrine
+0-2 Haurspex/Malenfactors
+0-1 additional Tyranid warriors
+0-1 additional Tyrants

Two Tyranid warriors + 6 gaunts (any type including gargoyles)
+ any number of gaunts
+ 0-2 Raveners
+ 0-2 Zoanthropes
+ 0-2 biovores
+ 0-1 carnifex
+0-2 additional Tyranid warriors or +0-1 additional Tyrants

Tyrant + 4 gaunts
+ any number of gaunts
+ 0-4 Raveners
+ 0-3 Zoanthropes
+ 0-1 Heriodules/tyrgons
+ 0-4 Carnifex
+0-3 Dactylis/exocrine/Haurspex/Malenfactors
+0-1 additional Tyrants

Additional tyranid warrior + 3 Gaunts
+ 0-2 Raveners
+ 0-2 Zoanthropes
+ 0-2 biovores
+ 0-1 carnifex

Additional Tyrant + 4 gaunts
+ 0-4 Raveners
+ 0-2 Zoanthropes
+ 0-1 Heriodules/tyrgons
+ 0-4 Carnifex
+0-3 Dactylis/exocrine/Haurspex/Malenfactors


And so on with the different synapse creatures.  Harridans could come with gargoyles and only buy gargoyles, as can vituperators, both without being able to buy additional synapse.

Nodes can buy artillery and a few gaunts and have the option to purchase a single set of additional warriors (to represent the hive mind getting ready to herd the creature forwards).

This idea does have the problem that players could just buy multiple lots of the basic swarm and out activate the enemy, but the synapse would have very little protecting them from incoming fire and should die quickly.  Also the core formation could have their prices artificially increased and the cost of the upgrades slightly decreased to encourage buying bigger swarms.

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Tyranid air marshal

Please don´t amit this as an personal attack, but we already had the experiment of three different lists here...and it horribly failed.  

So it would be nice if we tweak around on the current list and do not begin again at zero. This will lead to simply nothing.... The system with fractions of the whole sum worked quite well, no need to scrap it entirely. maybe we should go 1 step backward and take up the >1/4, <1/3 restrictions again.

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Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy

Don't worry Soren.  I was merely showing an idea I had.  I well remember the time of three lists and how it forced me to play with my own KISS list.

What I am doing here is just showing the uper synapse creatures an idea I had.  If it has merit it will be incorperated into the list, in some part, otherwise it will be cast aside.  I don't mind which happens, but I thought I would share it anyway, incase it could help others find a better solution.

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Tyranid air marshal

Actually it has some merits IF we use it for a direct effect rather then a list wide effect. Rags is an example of a list wide effect.

But what if we, instead, created a 'starter' formation for the Syanpase while changing nothing else on the list.

Assault Group
x3 Tyranid Warrior, x4 Hormogant, x4 Termagant 225pts

Attack Group
x2 Hive Tyrant, x3 Malefactor/Haruspex/Carmifex 325pts

Nexus Group
x1 Hive tyrant, x2 Tyranid Warrior, x4 Hormogant, x4 Termagant 250pts

Harassment Group
x1 Haridan, x4 Gargoyle 250pts

(The points break given is intentional)

Nothing else in the Synapse Box changes except the above.

We could also increase the cost of the Vituperator and Dominatrix a bit more, lets say Vit 350pts and Dom 475pts

Thoughts?

Thanks for the idea Rag, sometimes they lead to other ideas.

Jaldon

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I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

Just curious Hena, but why not?

(It was only an idea I threw up to get some feedback on, so feed back is why I am asking.)

Just fishing for ideas. I do have others then this in my pocket.

Thanks All.............

Jaldon

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I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

Hena, I actually believe that the tyranid swarms are highly organised, but such organisation is hard for the prey creatures to see.

The current list allows you to buy lots of units then stick them down wherever you want, within synapse range, however, most swarms are placed in ways similar to my suggestion, which removes a special rule (swarm organisation).

Massive Carnifex broods are always supported by a Tyrant or two, or sometimes a mummy beast.

If you have a load of Trygons and Heirodules then you would either spread them out to provide support multiple swarms or group them around the dominatrix to soak firepower.

You wouldn’t have a tyrant leading a massive gaunt swarm or the node babysitting Trygons.

It also allows us to have cool sounding names for our formations

Endless tide for a tyranid warrior formation
Crusher brood for a tyrant lead carnifex brood
? brood for a tyant lead artillery brood (tyrant brood with 0-4 exocrine/dactylis and 0-2 carnifex/malefactor/haruspex)
Behemoth brood for a dominatrix and her gaggle
Winged horror for a Harridan lead swarm
Infestation for a hive node

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Tyranid air marshal

I'm with Hena on this one. Tyranid formations should be as open as possible.

We've already have enough change in the special rules, let's get them ironed down first before we start thinking about changing the whole organization system.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Ok guys, following Rag's lead, some other thoughts on army composition.

Jaldon's intention is that, flexibility notwithstanding, the bulk of the Nid army should be highly-spawnable commons rather than WE. Rag's concern is to find a simpler solution because the current and proposed mechanics require quite a lot of maths, especially where you have to juggle unrelated ratios. While Hena wants more flexibility rather than less, because the list should be sufficiently balanced to allow you to field any style of army without one or other style being artificially restricted because it proves to be over-powered.

Guys, I wonder if we are examining the right things here. Rather than imposing more ratios, would it be preferable to refine the 'Roles' a little further, and use this to guide the army composition? By stating that objectives can only be contested by the Synapse creatures, we have effectively made common and uncommon broods the 'Aircraft' of the list; the necessary support needed for the Synapse creatures to achieve the objectives. The list is then carefully geared around how many Synapse creatures can be fielded and how strong they are (the broods becoming the 'weapons' of the synapse creature). So here are some related thoughts:-

1. Independants and objectives
Would it be appropriate to only allow non-WE Independent units to contest objectives, thus making the big WE the 'tools' for the Genestealers and Lictors ('cos the big bugs are so ancient they are mindless and heedless of these 'higher thoughts')?

2. Ratios
Perhaps we could set the ratios in terms of army list values rather than the number of broods, to give better control over the numbers of different critters fielded.

• Synapse : Brood ratio
  Change this to be "the total cost of Synapse creatures may not exceed the value of all brood creatures" which would allow more swarms on the table.
  Alternatively "Synapse creatures may not be more than 75% the cost of all brood creatures" to restrict the number of swarms while making them bigger (thus getting more commons on the table).
  
• Common : Uncommon ratio
  Set this to be "Uncommons up to 75% of the value of Commons" (or whatever the sensible figure is), to constrain the number of 'medium sized' critters.

3. Fearless Synapse
Along with allowing a greater number of swarms etc, could I repeat the point about removing 'Fearless' from the Synapse creatures. While less important for the '1DC' creatures, this makes the WE synapse more vulnerable, so requiring a bit more tactical and strategic cunning from the 'Nid player; especially around finding ways to replace the bugs in swarms that have their spawning constrained by enemy action.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

If you remove Fearless from Tyranid Warriors, they're going to be a lot easier to kill, making it easier to achieve BTS against Nids. In most of the games I've played against Dave's bugs, his Tyranid Warriors would have died in droves if they weren't Fearless.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Umm, the point is that losing Fearless would encourage the Nids to use larger swarms to prevent Hack-downs hitting the Synapse - and conversely give the opponent something to aim at in assaults. In practice, this will have a greater effect on the WE synapses, which in turn will reduce the desirability of the Nidzilla list while not completely neutering it.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Okay, just checking. I wasn't exactly sure what your reasoning was for eliminating Fearless.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

We've already have enough change in the special rules, let's get them ironed down first before we start thinking about changing the whole organization system.

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I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC