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Rags KISS approach
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11699		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
Ragnarok?s Keep It Simple Spinegaunt Iteration

Well I have had a look at the three iterations of the list that are out there and, frankly, they confuse me.

This range, that range, they break, but don?t break situations, withdrawing only if you first sacrifice a chicken etc etc.

Now I know that a lot of work has gone into it to make it more understandable, but it still confuses me.  So for my first ?nid battle in a long while I am going to try a simpler version of the rules.  They go as follow.

This is mainly to see if they still feel nid like, without the rules.

General nid rules
All Tyranid formations get +1 on all engage activation rolls

Independent formations
2+ initiative
All independent formation have And they Shall know no fear.

Brood creature formations
4+ Initiative

Synapse creatures
Synapse creature are never surpressed
Any formation with one or more synapse creatures gains +2 to their initiative
Any formation with one or more synapse creatures gain And They Shall Know No Fear

Changed stat lines
All bio titans and synapse creatures gain Leader, Hive Tyrant gains Inspiring (representing the horror and catalyst).

Special rules removed
Synapse range
Auto rallying
Instinctive
Renormalizing the swarm in the end phase
relentless


Overall
Basically the nids behave normally with regards to BM and breaking, however having synapse creatures make it much harder (20ish units with ATSKNF).  I have also removed the gone to ground rule since I don?t like the idea of 100 gaunts suddenly finding better things to do, just because some elder rangers decided to pop the warriors.

Brood creatures still have some reliability if they are not looked after by a synapse creature (most are Ld10 nowadays so don?t need to be babysat.

However if you break brood creatures without synapse then they probably wont be coming back (6+ to rally 7+ if within 30cm of the enemy)
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
I'll have to wait for Dave to take them for a test drive to give a truly informed opinion, but your changes do seem to streamline things.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
Interesting!

Some things jump out at me as confusing already, but I'm going to digest this a bit before I comment.

Thanks for you efforts, rag!
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach

(Chroma @ Feb. 12 2008,21:26)
QUOTE
Interesting!

Some things jump out at me as confusing already, but I'm going to digest this a bit before I comment.

Thanks for you efforts, rag!

I write in a confusing fashion (by the time the thoughts get to my hands I am already ahead of myslef and miss bits out :D ).

It basically boils down to :

Nids suffer form BM and break as normal

all nids have  In 2+ and ATSKNF

If a brood formation loses its synpase then it doesn't go to ground, instead it loses ATSKNF and become In 4+

Only synpase creatures are immune to the effects of BM (so three warriorscan lead a swarm of gaunts and still get to shoot their guns).
Author:  Dave [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
Just glancing over it, without spawning in there you would have to do price adjustments on all brood creatures.

Also, the lack of synapse range provides for positively huge swams that can cover a whole lot of table.

Out of curiosity, what did you find confusing in the current 'nid variants?
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach

(Dave @ Feb. 12 2008,21:48)
QUOTE
Just glancing over it, without spawning in there you would have to do price adjustments on all brood creatures.

Also, the lack of synapse range provides for positively huge swams that can cover a whole lot of table.

Out of curiosity, what did you find confusing in the current 'nid variants?

Spawning and regen are still in it.  I have only removed all the other rules.

As for what is confusing me.  I thinkthat it is partially due to there being three slightly different variants and partially because they change the core rules soo much.

I can understand if they just ignore the rules (like backwhn they didn't break or suffer BMs).  But having their own version of the rules is the pain.

Making htem work within the rules will make it easier to play blind against smeone who has never played against nids before.

Trying to understand how instinctive and relentless works whilst playing against nids for th first time could ruin th game.

Knowing that they have ATSKNF if the synapse is alive is easier (ATSKNF is a known rule from the main book).

so in closing I will say again that the nid rules are jot too hard to get your head around, it is just that they are a different set of rules.

As a follow on.  The lack of synpas range does allow the swarms to curtain off large areas of the board, just like 'uge warbands can.  However thismeans that there are fewer brood creratures between the synapse and the enemy guns, between Int 2+ and Int 4+.
Author:  Markconz [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
Some interesting ideas there Rag - cheers :)
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
Ok, hands up, since this latest set of Nid reviews have started I have not been keeping pace with the proposals. Basic reason, I was happy with where they were and did not see the need for further changes.

So please forgive me for not commenting on the Death Match lists.

I do like Rags approach though.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
I likeit. It looks much more simple and fits the background too :)
Coincidantally i proposed something similar in the past :D
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
I warily approve. Simplification is certainly needed, though I also feel spawning should also be simplified.
Author:  Lightbringer [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
And there was me just getting used to the Markonz variant! :O

Interesting stuff there Rag and certainly worth exploring.

Lightbringer
:cool:
Author:  ragnarok [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach

(zombocom @ Feb. 13 2008,11:03)
QUOTE
I warily approve. Simplification is certainly needed, though I also feel spawning should also be simplified.

I am looking at simplifying spawning as well.  SO far I have gotten it down to.

In each end phase, after rallying you roll D3 per 1000pts being played (so a normal sized game would be 3D3), and this is the number of spawning points available to be split between any non broken swarms.

it will probably have a limit on the number of models that can be spawned (so you can't spawn 9 units of gaunts).

and possible be limited to common brood creatures only.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach
I kinda like it -and it takes my signature to heart :D. I haven't even bothered to read the Deathmatch stuff either :( Too much to digest (excuse the pun) and TBH I'd rather play my Tau more to help flesh them into a final list than use my limited game time to play 3 Nid lists... So I decided to just wait a few months to see what comes out. ?Also no offense intended here but i'm unhappy with the "I prefer my idea ... here's my list to play instead" approach.

Thanks for the KISS approach Rags. I look forward to seeing what the outcome is.
Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach

(Dobbsy @ Feb. 14 2008,02:23)
QUOTE
Also no offense intended here but i'm unhappy with the "I prefer my idea ... here's my list to play instead" approach.

Thanks for the KISS approach Rags. I look forward to seeing what the outcome is.

Isn't that what I am doing?  :laugh:

I'll try to get a PDF up tonight with my concept of KISS on it.
Author:  zombocom [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Rags KISS approach

(ragnarok @ Feb. 13 2008,19:34)
QUOTE

(zombocom @ Feb. 13 2008,11:03)
QUOTE
I warily approve. Simplification is certainly needed, though I also feel spawning should also be simplified.

I am looking at simplifying spawning as well. ?SO far I have gotten it down to.

In each end phase, after rallying you roll D3 per 1000pts being played (so a normal sized game would be 3D3), and this is the number of spawning points available to be split between any non broken swarms.

it will probably have a limit on the number of models that can be spawned (so you can't spawn 9 units of gaunts).

and possible be limited to common brood creatures only.

Hmmm. That could be a bit breakable, as you could spawn all the creatures in the formation nearest the enemy to do a big engagement.

I was more thinking along the lines of removing the +d3 for no near enemies, and maybe just increasing the basic spawning values, as well as stopping hyrodules being spawnable (it's stupid).
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