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Two 8.4 games.

Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:20 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I played two games today with 8.4 'nids, versus Jstr19's Tau army (With some funky variant rules), and a L&TD army.

My list for both matches looked like this:

Synapse:

Hive Tyrant
Hive Tyrant
Hive Tyrant
3 Warriors
3 Warriors
Harridan
Harridan

Common Broods (10):

4 Gargoyles
4 Gargoles
4 Hormagaunts
4 Hormagaunts
4 Hormagaunts
4 Hormagaunts
4 Termagants
4 Termagants
4 Termagants
4 Termagants

Uncommon Broods (5):

2 Scythed Hierodules
3 Carnifexes
3 Carnifexes
3 Zoanthropes
2 Exocrines

Independent:

4 Genestealers
6 Meiotic Spore Mines
3 Lictors
3 Lictors

TOTAL: 3000pts

GAME 1: TAU

Rules used:
- Markconz Handbook rules.
- Tyranids 8.4
- Tau latest version, with the following modifications:
? ? - Fire Warriors lose one of their AP5+ shots
? ? - Fire Warriors go to FF4+
? ? - Jetpack-equipped units use the Eldar's move-shoot-move rules instead of getting a 10cm jump-back before Engagements.

This was an interesting game, to say the least.

Jstr19, never having used Eldar, attempting to use Eldar move-shoot-move on his Jetpack units was pretty funny, especially for my lucky Tyranids who were quick to expoit the minor blunders made by the Tau before them (Who, not familiar with their new technology, failed to make full use of it).

The game ended in a 2-0 victory for me on turn 3.

Highlights:

- 5 Instinctive Carnifexes and a Hive Tyrant Engaging a Crisis suit formation (On a 4+), and wiping them out to a man for zero losses.

- A Hive Tyrant with two Hierodule escorts that failed 3 initiative rolls in a row.

- Jstr flying a Tigershark behind my lines, and needing to pass near two Gargoyle stands in order to avoid the AA ubrella of some Spore Mines.

"They won't hurt me", he says.

Two 6's.
Two failed armour saves.

"Oh"

Just for fun I rolled a critical hit D6...

'6'

I don't think Eldar style movement work for the Tau, though I'm glad we playtested it once at least.

I thought FF4+ on Fire Warriors in exchange for one of their ranged shots was fine, even mounted as they were in an Orca.

GAME TWO: Lost and the Damned.

Rules used:
- Handbook
- 8.4 Nids
- Official L&TD

I lost this game hard.

I couldn't do a thing right; I failed the majority of my Initiative rolls, I made poor tactical choices, and I largely lacked the long range weapons (Read Dactilii) to deal with his Basilisk troop.

Highlights:

- A Lord of Battles and a Coven with Daemons combined-engaging a swarm of 6 carnifexes, 3 Zoanthropes and a Tyrant... scoring ~20 hits, and somehow two Carnifexes still survived to fall back.

- A Hive Tyrant and a Daemon Prince killing each other.

- A Bloodthirster rolling his attacks (5 attacks? 6?) and missing with every single one, meaning my wounded Harridan was able to break away from combat and fly away to spawn behind a nearby hill.

- My 'nids losing Engagement after Engagement until I was a beaten little Termagant crying for his Dominatrix to come and make things better.

*ahem*

I conceeded this game half way through turn three, as although I still had a chance (I think I could have easily forced a turn three at the least), it was getting late and we wanted to get a game of Warhammer Quest in...

Thoughts about 8.4:

- Instinctive is awesome. Once the game is in play it is elegant and intuitive.

- I liked the spawning system.

- Zoanthropes still seem to underperform, even if they have awesome new models.

I think that was more down to my bad luck though (Not a single FF hit from three Engagements they joined).

- My Carnifexes also underperformed, as they always do.

- The BM handling system worked well (I was worried about the auto-removal of all BM's in the end phase, but it seemed to work fine).

- Harridans still get shot down first.

- The new army list selection system is brilliant, especially the restrictions on needing two Common Swarms for each Uncommon Swarm.

Did I mention how much I enjoyed 8.4?

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Kagetora

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:00 am

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Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:45 pm
Posts: 85

(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 11 2007,00:20)

QUOTE

- The BM handling system worked well (I was worried about the auto-removal of all BM's in the end phase, but it seemed to work fine).

Interestingly, my opponent last night (the Eldar) commented on how cool that actually was. He said it really made him re-think his tactics...altering what he would normally do against another army. He didn't seem to think it was broken at all. Of course, the vast majority of the time I was only removing 2-4 BM's, as I mentioned he wasn't concentrating firepower very well.

And its not as if its unprecendented. My Feral Orks regularly remove all their BM's up to 13 (6 Nobz in 'Uge Warbands), usually on a 1+ or a 2+.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:37 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Here's the terribly non-painted army I used.

EDIT:

I still support dropping AA from Gargoyles and upping Meiotic Spore Mine AA radius to 30cm, or making the current spore mine cluster cheaper so that it becomes viable to take two clusters.

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:19 am

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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

5 Instinctive Carnifexes and a Hive Tyrant Engaging a Crisis suit formation (On a 4+), and wiping them out to a man for zero losses

Did you expect anything else? There's a reason Tau Jump packs work the way they do...

I don't think Eldar style movement work for the Tau
Welcome to the Tau reality...

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:14 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

The secret is special rules combined with high firepower, tanks and aircraft

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Tiny-Tim

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:16 am

Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4893
Location: North Yorkshire

Thanks for the reports E&C.

I would be interested in hearing if people can actually get Harridans to work as part of the list as I have previously been forced to use Trygons as a protective shield for them.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:34 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Dobbsy:

At least we're trying to find a special rule that isn't broken... as the current jetpack rule is.

So far our favourite solution is the post-shooting 10cm move.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:35 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(The_Real_Chris @ Nov. 12 2007,06:14)

QUOTE

The secret is special rules combined with high firepower, tanks and aircraft

Don't forget being slightly too cheap and having awesome armour on their forward units.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:38 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(Tiny-Tim @ Nov. 12 2007,10:16)

QUOTE

I've not been able to make Harridans work (With 5+RA they die after ~7 AT hits... not a hard feat to manage), but I love the model so I always take at least one.

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:10 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

trying to find a special rule that isn't broken

Ahhh that old chestnut eh?

Would harridans be better served as aircraft perhaps? Perhaps with bomber status?

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:17 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Would harridans be better served as aircraft perhaps? Perhaps with bomber status?

That's a very interesting idea!

What if Harridans were dual status as Bomber / Skimmers.

- If they're off table at the start of the turn they operate as bombers.

- If they're on the table at the start of the turn they operate as skimmers.

- They may choose to fly off the table at the end of the turn, if they wish to.

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Chroma

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:43 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 12 2007,22:17)

QUOTE

That's a very interesting idea!

What if Harridans were dual status as Bomber / Skimmers.

It *is* interesting... but I don't think they fly fast enough to qualify as, well flyers... and that would be *another* special rule... *laugh*

I'll review their Imperial Armour stats again and get back about this.

And, as an aside, take the Tau sniping to the Tau boards, thanks! :alien:

(Imagine that a blue instead of green)

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Markconz

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:51 am

Purestrain

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 12 2007,21:17)

QUOTE

Would harridans be better served as aircraft perhaps? Perhaps with bomber status?

That's getting back to the previous edition of rules (Epic40k)- both harridans and gargoyles were flyers, and the gargoyles could also be dumped onto the table and move around as infantry with skimmer ability.

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Chroma

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:57 am

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Markconz @ Nov. 12 2007,23:51)

QUOTE

Are you for or against such a thing, Markconz?

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Markconz

Post subject: Two 8.4 games.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:03 am

Purestrain

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(Chroma @ Nov. 12 2007,22:57)

QUOTE

(Markconz @ Nov. 12 2007,23:51)

QUOTE

Are you for or against such a thing, Markconz?

Probably against, I can see gargoyles zipping into flight paths of incoming planes maybe, but EA 'flyer' ability implies some sort of very fast jet powered flight to me. Harridan - it looks like a fat dragon. Mind you in recent movies the dragons have been flying quite fast too...

But being involved in aerial dogfights as per previous rulesets maybe not...

Really I don't care either way so long as the game plays well

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