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Tyranid Special Rules

 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:36 pm 
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Here?s a further attempt at simplifying the Tyranid Special Rules without throwing the baby out with the bath water. I don?t think this can be reduced much more than this without losing Jervis?s orginal vision of unique Tyranid Swarm composition and random spawning (which are the main bits).

While trying to preserve the essence and balance achieved by the current list, I have tried strenuously to accomodate the reasonable widespread complaints I've been hearing about length, complexity, clarity and superfluous detail in the current rules.  To that end the length has been considerably reduced from that of v8.3 (down to 1326 words from 2288 words) and I think the clarity is much improved. This is a further development of tidying started by Hena (and Chroma of course) which had continued in this thread:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=10391


(Note the fluff and where it goes is not the most important thing, I?ve just stuck a general intro section at the start to get it out of the way but leaving it in the various sections is possible. Important thing is to get actual rules sorted).

Comments?
(Note updated with corrections from the Dave and WE Dave).


TYRANID SPECIAL RULES:

One of the most terrifying things about fighting Tyranids is that there seems to be no end to the number of creatures in the army. Even if an attack is stopped, more Tyranids will soon appear to renew it, and some extremely large Tyranid creatures (the size of most Imperial Titans) are covered inside and out with regenerative symbiotic creatures that heal wounds, and repair damaged tissue. Furthermore as long as they are under the control of the Hive Mind, lesser Tyranid creatures, quite literally, do not know the meaning of fear and will relentlessly sell their lives to secure the goals of the greater Hive Mind. This is not due to any bravery or training, but reflects the iron will of the Hive Mind transmitted though psychic links to these creatures. Disruption of these psychic links is the only thing that can slow down the remorseless tide of Tyranids. To represent their alien nature, Tyranid Armies use the following special rules.

T1.0 Tyranid Swarms

The Tyranid army is divided into three basic types of units: Independent Creatures, Synapse Creatures and Brood Creatures (with Brood Creatures being further subdivided into Common and Uncommon Brood Creatures). Each creature's type is noted on their individual data sheet and in the army list that follows.

Independent Creatures are organised and operate in formations (called Independent Swarms) just like normal non-Tyranid units. Synapse Creatures and Brood Creatures are treated a bit differently.  Before deployment, the Tyranid player assigns Brood Creatures to Synapse Groups, to create Brood Swarms.  Each Brood Swarm counts as a single formation that consists of a single Synapse Group and all Brood Creatures assigned to it. All Brood Swarms must be set up in legal formation using the setup instructions for the scenario. In addition, all Brood Creatures must be deployed within synapse range (15cm) of a Synapse Creature from the Brood Swarm's Synapse Group. If the Tyranid player wishes, they may hold some Brood Creatures in reserve and not assign them to any Synapse Group. These Brood Creatures may be assigned to Synapse Grounds during the End Phase when the Brood Swarm spawns (see T5.0).

During the Action Phase, Brood Swarms act for the most part like normal non-Tyranid formations. However all the Brood Creatures must stay within synapse range (15cm) of a Synapse Creature from the Brood Swarm's Synapse Group. If the Brood Swarm finds itself "out of formation" (either normal, see 1.2.1, or synapse range), the portion with the most Synapse Creatures cannot be removed. The only exception to staying in synapse range is during an assault, where only normal coherency need be maintained. At the end of an assault, Brood Creatures outside of synapse range will "go to ground" (see T2.0). Note that, if a Brood Swarm loses all its Synapse Creatures during an assault, all remaining Brood Creatures will "go to ground" at the end of the action, even if victorious. Brood Creatures that lose their Synapse Creatures before they have taken an action for the turn still get to take an action, and only "go to ground" if out of synapse range in the End Phase.

During the End Phase, after rallying, Brood Swarms may be reorganized. First, any Brood Creatures out of synapse range (15cm) "go to ground". Second, any Brood Creatures within synapse range of one Synapse Group become part of its Brood Swarm. If any Brood Creatures are within synapse range of two or more Synapse Groups then the Brood Creatures may be joined to any one of the Synapse Groups as decided by the Tyranid player. It is recommended that the units that are in doubt be turned to face the Brood Swarm to which they belong to avoid confusion later.

T2.0  "Go to Ground"
At times Brood Creatures "go to ground". When this happens they are automatically removed from play. It is assumed that the creatures have lost connection to Hive Mind and have reverted to their animalistic instincts, lurking on the battlefield and waiting for an easy chance to get their next meal.

T3.0 Voracious
The Hive Mind is eager to overwhelm and consume its prey, devouring all that stands before It. To represent this, Tyranid swarms gain a +1 modifier to their action test rolls when taking Engage or March actions.

T4.0 Instinctive
Tyranids do not suffer from suppression or count as having any blast markers in an assault. Tyranid swarms can be broken but do not suffer extra hits due to blast markers while broken. If a Tyranid swarm loses an assault it will be broken and will suffer ?hack down hits? as normal.

T5.0 Spawning
Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return Brood Creatures to play that have been killed, "gone to ground", or held off table before the start of the battle. During the End Phase before rallying, each unbroken Synapse Creature automatically generates D3 "spawn points?. For this purpose up to three Tyranid Warriors in a Synapse Group count as a single Synapse Creature and a Dominatrix counts as two Synapse Creatures. In addition the following modifiers apply to the total "spawn points" generated by each Synapse Group:

-No enemy units within 30cm of any unit in the Brood Swarm +D3
-At least 1 Synapse Creature within 15cm of a Brood Nest +D3

Each Brood Creature has a spawning cost based upon its general availability to the Tyranid army as a whole. Brood Creatures that can be spawned have "Brood (x)" in their notes where "x" equals the number of "spawn points" required to return the creature to play. All spawned units must be placed within 5cm of a Synapse Creature from the Synapse Group that spawned them. Spawned units may not be placed in the zone of control of enemy units or in impassable terrain. Note that "spawn points" generated may not be spent if the Tyranid player does not have enough creatures to spawn.  Additionally, the Tyranid player may choose not to spawn available units and may forfeit their remaining "spawn points" for the Brood Swarm.

After Spawning has been completed any broken Tyranid formations rally automatically and remove all blastmarkers.

T6.0 Regeneration
During the End Phase, a Tyranid War Engine with the regeneration special ability rolls a number of D6 equal to half its starting damage capacity, rounded up. For each roll of 5+ the War Engine regains one of its lost DC. Successful rolls can only be used to replace a War Engine's lost DC, not to increase it past the War Engine's starting DC. Regeneration may not be used to bring a War Engine back to life: once it's dead, it's dead.


Special Rule - Tournament Scenario Victory Conditions and Tyranids
Due to the unique nature of the Tyranid army, and the completely alien Hive Mind that controls it, Tyranid "military"  objectives are not pursued in the same manner as most armies of the known races in the galaxy. For example, an Imperial commander keenly feels heavy losses in personal and equipment, while the Hive Mind thinks no more of expending lesser creatures in battle than most commanders consider expending ammunition. It is impossible for an opponent to attack and degrade the Tyranid army?s morale. However, it is possible to eliminate the Synapse creatures providing the link between the Hive Mind and its drones, thus disrupting the effectiveness of the army. This ?alien outlook? requires some changes in the way that Tournament Victory Conditions are treated by the Tyranid army.

Objectives
Only Independent and Synapse units (not Brood units) may control or contest battlefield objectives. Also units that removed Instinctive status during end phase may not control or contest objectives.

Break Their Spirit
Against Tyranids, the Break Their Spirit goal is based upon the number of Synapse Creature units still on the battlefield compared to those that have been removed. If the number of Synapse Creature units killed is equal to, or greater than, the number of Synapse Creatures still in play, the opponent has achieved the Break Their Spirit goal. Note that the number of individual Synapse Creatures is counted, not Synapse Groups, and Synapse War Engine units count their full starting DC..

Tiebreaker
When determining victory points, the Tyranid army does not use formation size to determine the number of points the opponent receives for a tiebreaker. Instead the opponent uses the following values for units/groups destroyed or reduced below half at the end of the battle:
-Synapse Groups are worth double their points value.
-Independent Swarms are worth their normal point value.
-Brood Creature units are worth half their point value, rounded down.



Commentary

Section 1: One intro para, one para on organisation, one para on action phase, one para on end phase. Synapse X values ditched.
Section 2: ?Go to ground? separated out for clarity.
Section 3: Voracious unchanged
Section 4: Instinctive ? similar effect to now but simplified. Blast makers after being ?broken?, and other counterintuitive effects are gone (including initiative checks to hold, that if failed allow you to hold). Withdrawals are allowed so not mentioned. This rule may or may not combine well with disposable termis and hormis (would probably limit any disposable rule to these two classes).
Section 5: Spawning and Rallying: Simplified again, but similar effect to current. Separately listed spawn values of synapse groups ditched. Rally checks to spawn are ditched but you don?t spawn if broken. Note a Nexus Swarm will get D3 for tyrant and D3 for warriors until it loses either. Apart from that there is no messing around with wounds or numbers of lost creatures or other modifiers affecting spawning rates. Just a number of D3 rolls and you put down the creatures.
Section 6. Regeneration unchanged except number of words.
Tournament rules unchanged from previous thread.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Great job man, I like it.  Here are my comments on clarification, my opinions are below them.

--------------------------------

1.0 - Paragraph 3

- (either normal coherency, see 1.7.4, or synapse range)

- The only exception to staying in synapse range is during an assault, where only normal coherency need be maintained.

2.0 - Paragraph 1

- When this happens they are automatically removed from play.

- it is assumed that these creatures

3.0 - Paragraph 1

- The Hive Mind is eager to overwhelm and consume its prey, devouring all that stands before It.

4.0 - Paragraph 1
Tyranid receive blast markers only for casualties, not for coming under fire. Additionally, they do not suffer from suppression or count as having any blast markers in an assault. Tyranid swarms can be broken but do not suffer extra hits due to blast markers while broken. If a Tyranid swarm loses an assault it will be broken and will suffer ?hack down hits? as normal.

5.0 - Paragraph 1

- killed, "gone to ground", or

5.0 - Paragraph 3

- All spawned units must be placed within 5cm of a Synapse Creature from a Synapse Group that spawned them. Spawned units may not be placed in the zone of control of enemy units or in impassable terrain.

6.0 - Paragraph 1

- not to increase it past the war engine's starting DC.

Break Their Spirit

- Note that the number of individual Synapse creatures is counted, not Synapse Groups, and Synapse war engine units count their full starting DC.

--------------------------------

This was my first run through, hopefully everything is clear.  Let me know if it isn't.  I'll comb though it again sometime later and see if there's anything else I see.  Nice job on the uniform capitalization by the way, the only words that escape your attention were "war engine".

I like it, everything but the lack of the spawning chart :p.  What you have here is simpler though. I liked the previous values however.

Also, this is a suggestion I've been making for awhile now.  We need a note on the Catalyst/whatever-we're-calling-them-this-week markers in the special rules section.  We to say that they are just markers, and they aren't units.  Their presence on the army list makes that point confusing.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:57 pm 
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Despite still being a lot of reading, I appreciate trying to include the concepts described by Jervis will mean a lot of explanation. ?
I actually think the rules you have produced here are about as clear as they can be made and are a good step forward.

I think keeping the "fluff" up front and distinct from the various sections of the rules is good and will speed up consultation during games.

1.0 Tyranid Swarms : I would prefer something simpler but as this is one of Jervis`s concepts, I can go with it. While wordy I think you have got this about as straightforward to understand as possible.

2.0 ??Go to Ground? : No problem with this. You have missed out the word "are" between "they" and "automatically".

3.0 Voracious : No problem with this.

4.0 Instinctive : This is a much clearer and intuitive set of rules than the 8.3 version. Very good.
Agree that we need to see how it interacts with Disposable.

5.0 End Phase and Spawning. Again simpler in operation so I think it is a step forward. ?Do we need to specify in the rules a formation doesn`t spawn if it is broken ?
Does a formation need to spawn back as many points worth of creatures that it rolls up? Eg if a formation rolls 2D3 in spawning and comes up with 5. ?There are say 8 Termagants available to bring back. Does the formation need to bring back 5 or can it just spawn say 3 Termagants leaving the rest for further formations to access ?

6.0 Regeneration : Again no problem

All in all I think an admirable attempt at getting a consensus on the Nid special rules. While my group would clearly prefer something simpler, speaking personally, I think I could come on board with these rules as they are simpler, more straightforward and more intuitive than the original 8.3 rules. ?
Its important that we can find a set of rules agreeable to most to move the list forward. I still think Disposable on Termagants, Hormagaunts and probably Gargoyles should be included and we need to see how this effects the Instinctive rule.


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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:15 pm 
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(woodelf_dave @ Sep. 22 2007,10:57)
QUOTE
Do we need to specify in the rules a formation doesn't spawn if it is broken ?

Does a formation need to spawn back as many points worth of creatures that it rolls up? Eg if a formation rolls 2D3 in spawning and comes up with 5.  There are say 8 Termagants available to bring back. Does the formation need to bring back 5 or can it just spawn say 3 Termagants leaving the rest for further formations to access?

I was always under the impression the Brood Swarms always spawn back units if they have Synapse Creatures.  Broken or not.

While I suppose a Brood Swarm could elect to spawn back less creatures than it rolled on its spawning role, why would it do so?  Even if you run out of Termagant models you could still use counters or something to get the full number of units spawned back on the table.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:21 pm 
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(Dave @ Sep. 22 2007,16:15)
QUOTE
I was always under the impression the Brood Swarms always spawn back units if they have Synapse Creatures. ?Broken or not.

While I suppose a Brood Swarm could elect to spawn back less creatures than it rolled on its spawning role, why would it do so? ?Even if you run out of Termagant models you could still use counters or something to get the full number of units spawned back on the table.

Spawning doesn't allow you to create "new" models, only re-use the ones you've already got.  If you've only got 4 Termagants in your "spawning pool" that's the most you can respawn.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:35 pm 
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(Dave @ Sep. 22 2007,16:15)
QUOTE
I was always under the impression the Brood Swarms always spawn back units if they have Synapse Creatures. ?Broken or not.

You still need to pass a successful Spawn (Rally) check to get the spawn points.

Anyway, there's a new version posted at the top of this forum, please take a look!

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:36 pm 
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Then that is definitely worth noting some place as well.  Every game I played I've always spawned back more than what I had on my list.

So, in other words, the Tyranid player is not allowed to spawn back more than the number of Brood creatures that was on their army list for the game.  Correct?

i.e., I had 30 Termagants on my list, I can never have ore than 30 Termagants on the table at any one time.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:39 pm 
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(Dave @ Sep. 22 2007,19:36)
QUOTE
i.e., I had 30 Termagants on my list, I can never have ore than 30 Termagants on the table at any one time.

That is correct.

How were you getting "extra" Termagants in your "spawning pool"?  The only ways they can get there is things killed on the battlefield or held in reserve at the start of the game.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:50 pm 
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(Chroma @ Sep. 22 2007,14:39)
QUOTE
How were you getting "extra" Termagants in your "spawning pool"?  The only ways they can get there is things killed on the battlefield or held in reserve at the start of the game.

Because the spawning pool isn't mentioned in the special rules currently and only in the army list section.  And I never read it ;).  I think this should be stated in the special rules.

Additionally, with regards to these rules...

Markconz, under your instinctive section.  Can swarms no longer make a hold action when they are broken?

Because "Go to ground" is used before it is defined, it might be worthwhile to have a note such as "see Special Rules 2.0" or something like that.

Finally, I think Tiebreaker could be further subdivided, but that's a minor point I think.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:56 pm 
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(Dave @ Sep. 22 2007,19:50)
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Because the spawning pool isn't mentioned in the special rules currently and only in the army list section. ?And I never read it ;). ?I think this should be stated in the special rules.

Actually, there's no game mechanic "spawning pool", it's just a phrase that's been used as shorthand to refer to dead/in reserve Brood creatures.

The first "rules" sentence of the new (see top of forum) Spawning rules says this:

Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return Brood creature units to play that have been killed, removed from play, or held in reserve.

The Brood creatures listed in that are the only one available for spawning.  Does that seem clear?

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:08 pm 
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I think something like this would make it clear:

1.0 - Second Paragraph

- If the Tyranid player wishes, they may hold some Brood Creatures in reserve and not assign them to any Synapse Group. These Brood Creatures may be assigned to Synapse Grounds during the End Phase when the Brood Swarm spawns (see 5.0 End Phase and Spawning).


5.0 - Between the last two paragraphs add this paragraph:

- Spawned units must come from those units in the "Spawning Pool", the collection of units that have been killed, gone to ground, or held off table before the start of the battle.

It's a little redundant, I'm sure someone could work it down and clarify.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:45 am 
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Ok updated it to take account of corrections suggested by Dave and WE Dave.

Note on the spawning - in this proposed set of rules I specifically eliminated rally rolls to spawn, for the reasons stated in the v8.4 thread:
I don't think there is any need for a mechanism that requires first a rally roll, then a spawn amount roll or a specific spawn amount. Just a single automatic spawning roll (instead of a rally roll) that takes into account the vagaries of chance effectively does the same thing and is much speedier and more elegant. Furthermore I don't believe a good spawning rule necessitates having different synapse amounts scattered throughout the list.  It is superfluous detail that could be easily discarded without losing anything important. Keep it reasonably random and simple.


In short my rule proposals here are simple and really are intended to be just what they say:
-unbroken formations get an automatic spawn
-broken formations get an automatic rally


@ Dave: Re Instinctive, correct there is no hold when broken, but then there is withdrawal as normal (so you still get movement). I think the v8.3 'hold while broken' added little to gameplay, and was counterintuitive and confusing to people so I got rid of it.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:00 pm 
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(Hena @ Sep. 24 2007,12:03)
QUOTE
Spawning. From reading it I get an impression that the Nexus group would be getting 2d3 same as Dominatrix. is this right?

Correct, under this proposal the Nexus group and Dom both get 2D3 (until either tyrant or both warriors are lost from Nexus at which point it drops to D3). But this is not really a change at all in practical terms:

2D3 vs D3+2. Both Average of 5.

Only real difference under old version was that Dom was more random - for no good reason except it was made that way without being thought about much I think.  Similarly the 9 warriors or a Harridan not being as good as a single tyrant at spawning in v8.3  is a very arbitrary unnecessary distinction that should be discarded IMO.


Note instinctive in the rules above just refers to a small set of easily remembered modifications on how blast markers and broken work, not to a distinct state in itself. I believe an 'instinctive state' rule is problematic,  not least in the fact that it is confusing to people.

Thus regarding your desire that spawning should occur while broken, an alternative to it being disallowed  in the set of rules above would be that swarms simply do spawn when broken.  If it was desired to differentiate spawning while broken from spawning while perhaps the first modifier could be:

-No enemy units within 30cm of any unit in the Brood Swarm, and Brood Swarm unbroken +D3

Anyway as stated above, I don't think rally rolls, followed by spawn rolls, is a necessary or elegant mechanic. Difficulty spawning is already represented by getting a low spawn dice roll (eg you only get a single termagant). This rally roll, then spawn roll is another level of superfluous detail that could be cut to improve elegance and flow of the rules, and generally make things easier for players.


Anyway I look forward to seeing your proposals Hena. Maybe start another thread with all the rules set out as I have above so we can see them clearly? Would be intrigued to see if you can get an 'instinctive engage' option that works... (if that is what you are thinking of). Personally I couldn't think of an option that was worth the bother it caused but good luck if you are attempting it :).

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 Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:14 pm 
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(Markconz @ Sep. 22 2007,21:45)
QUOTE
Note on the spawning - in this proposed set of rules I specifically eliminated rally rolls to spawn, for the reasons stated in the v8.4 thread.

In short my rule proposals here are simple and really are intended to be just what they say:
-unbroken formations get an automatic spawn
-broken formations get an automatic rally


I really like this.  It's simple.  You're unbroken you spawn. You're broken, you rally.



(Markconz @ Sep. 22 2007,21:45)
QUOTE
@ Dave: Re Instinctive, correct there is no hold when broken, but then there is withdrawal as normal (so you still get movement). I think the v8.3 'hold while broken' added little to gameplay, and was counterintuitive and confusing to people so I got rid of it.


It was confusing.  I was going to argue that it be another downgrade for the 'nids but seeing as they are still better off then any other race when broken I saw how silly the argument was :-P.

Additional thoughts ----

Should it be noted that Brood Creatures that loose their Synapse Creatures before they act still get to act? They don't automatically "go to ground" but do so in the End Phase if out of SR, correct?

Double quote all occurrences of "go to ground", "gone to ground" and "spawn points".

T1.0 - Paragraph 3

- Brood Creatures outside of synapse range will "go to ground" (see T2.0). Note that, if a Brood Swarm loses all its Synapse Creatures during an assault, all remaining Brood Creatures will "go to ground" at the end of the action, even if victorious.

T5.0 - Paragraph 1

- During the End Phase before rallying, each unbroken Brood Swarm's Synapse Group automatically generates D3 "spawn points?. The only exceptions to this are the Nexus Group and the Hive Group which generate 2D3 "spawn points".

T5.0 - Paragraph 3

- All spawned units must be placed within 5cm of a Synapse Creature from the Synapse Group that spawned them.

- Note that "spawn points" generated may not be spent if the Tyranid player does not have enough creatures to spawn.  Additionally, the Tyranid player may choose not to spawn available units and may forfeit their remaining "spawn points" for the Brood Swarm.





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