That's exactly my point... allowing them to "hide" that way over-protects the Warriors to a ridiculous degree.

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I don't think it's a ridiculous degree of protection considering just how vital synapse is to the list. Were warriors noticably overused before this change? I certainly don't remember seeing them much more than Tyrants.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I usually use only one Warrior group, and 3+ Tyrant groups.

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I guess I'm missing the point. By making them LV you want them to be more vulnerable?

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That does seem to have been the intention.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Exactly - the intention is that Warriors ought to stand out in the crowd because they are bigger, making it easier to shoot them. The argument is that as the swarm approaches, people would naturally target the big guys because they represent a bigger threat.

The issue is that by making them LV, Warriors could be singled out by AT fire unless there are other vehicles to spread the fire. It also means they cannot gain cover by being next to a vehicle and changes the Dangerous terrain tests etc.

IMHO this is patently wrong for the many reasons I have already mentioned, but you knew that already didn't you?

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It over protects them only if the opponent was sitting still and shooting at the formations as I presented them. The instant enemy formations started maneuvering and drawing lines on my swarms where they weren't going through vats of the little guys the warriors died like the rest. And if I started to keep my warriors in the middle of the swarm then my opponent had to go through less brood creatures anyway.

Considering that my win/loss ratio with 9.1 was very close to 50% I struggle to see why the LV change was needed. You're claiming that they were over protected, but did you ever try a list like I regurally played? I never saw them as indestructible. Given how easy the little guys died Warriors weren't the bane of enemy in my games ('stealers were...).

If the warriors were so over-protected in the first place shouldn't I have been winning more battles than just 50%? Wouldn't people be complaining about these power gamed lists of lots of warriors and hormies and termies?

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Squats 2019-10-17

weren't broke.  Why fix?

To add to that, if you want a nidzilla list, why not make a separate nidzilla list... oh. wait... cool!

This is a sort of stream of thought.

1) Tyranid warriors are bigger than the surrounding infantry, why can't they be shot.
2) Make warriors LV
3) Warriors are now vulnerable, need bodyguards
4) Raveners are common broods, use them as bodyguards
5) Warriors are still twice as vulnerable as LV compared to INF even with bodyguards when using gaunts
6) Don't use Gaunts, just use other LV's
7) Welcome to all Ravener broods led by Warriors

The only reasons I can see that nobody is running all Ravener/Warrior broods is lack of models and it just seems wrong but it certainly appears viable.

Lower stand count but the Ravener is more survivable and better in combat.

Right.
Not clear that the TW=LV actually solves the problem it was intended to solve -- "shoot the big ones" only encourages the swarm to evolve more big ones.

Indeed, it only accentuate another problem, which is that Raveners/warriors and other LVs serve nicely as bodyguards for the bigger AV units.  So it actually gets harder to "shoot the big ones" even though it might be easier to shoot the warriors.

Net result: smaller swarms of big 'nids, once folks model up their raveners.

That's a pretty accurate rundown followed by an excellent point. And with people taking less guants and more big 'nids the list is diverging from one of the original goals.

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In the old list the main reason to take gaunts was to protect warriors. Now Raveners look better in almost all circumstances.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

But as you say, the 5+ save on the ravener is not much worse than the half combat res thing (which is of course roughly a 4+ save of sorts).

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Epic: Hive Development Thread