What parts of the french version are likely to make it into 9.2?

Having played 9.0 and 9.1 for a while, I have some comments about things that "feel" wrong.

Spawning adds little to the game as it is. The modifiers are so harsh that only swarms dedicated to defending your half of the table see any effect of it.

Hena commented in the f-erc thread about making it a Tyranid action. Perhaps Tyranid marshal could incorporate Spawn. Then it would be tactical rather than army-wide. The problem now is that once you need it, it will not be enough. If you do not need it, it is almost superfluous.

Another way to go at it, would be to purchase spawning from the start (like without numbers in 40K). It would be easier to factor in the costs of the army.

The uncommon broods are not uncommon anymore, more like on the verge of extinction. I find that decreasing the number in broods as well as inflicting the 2:1 ratio killed the bio-armoured vehicles.

There are still some Macro-weapon inconsistencies. I would rather that the concepts of Haruspex and Trygon would be switched. Haruspex could swathe through enemies (extra attacks) and Trygons have macro-weapons. I would find it more logical. I am also all for sniper attacks on Lictors.

Perhaps the independent/no-synapse ideas from the f-erc list could be incorporated. That would put pressure on Independent swarms being used to attack/contest rather than grab. It would also mean that synapse-free swarms can still attack, but not contest.

On the topic of the french list, I really liked Tyrants being inspiring and zoanthropes being leaders.

My bit of input,
Fredmans

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Sounds like they're actually getting rid of this, as they found the Tyranids had few swarms that could grab objectives in the later turns... I'm still thinking about it, as I think it reflects the Tyranid's alien outlook.

More to come soon.

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Hey Chroma:

I've been reading and considering.  We, the FERC and the Taccomms development, actually have a lot of very similar ideas implemented in different fashion.

Starting with our special rules...

Swarms:  I like the flexible swarm system and the synapse range.  I realize it's occasionally problematic but it's also a strong flavor element.

Relentless:  I think this should be kept.  It's similar in game effect to the FERC Synapse rules with respect to keeping formations moving.

Expendable:  Your comments about the "token" BM were something I hadn't considered.  Perhaps the French "coming under fire" option is better in that respect.

Spawning:  I think this can go.

Flame Template:  Out.

From the French...

Unstoppable:  I have no issues with this for movement, though impassable should remain impassable.  I'm not sure about the restricted withdrawal move.  It could make swarms very vulnerable once they break and I'm not sure what it's supposed to add flavor-wise.

Synapse:  This is much simpler than synapse range as far as the number of words required to explain it, but in-game I would not expect it to be any easier.  Tracking different Initiative ratings as they change doesn't seem any less fiddly than checking range from Synapse.  Different objective claiming rules is of comparable complexity in both lists.

Supreme Commander:  This seems to be entirely for their BTS goal.  It's a workable option but I prefer ours.  Besides, their list could technically be fielded without a single Synapse Creature (like an Ork list without Nobz).  I'd generally avoid "if-then" rules based on force composition.

Meiotic Spores:  With their "spore chimney" as the on-board source of AA like Lionel proposed this is very much like the spore cloud system.  The difference is the AA range and the AA model stats.

Regeneration:  Absolutely not.  Way too much luck involved and feels terribly unfair to anyone not able to crush a WE in one turn.

Mycetic Spores:  I'm still a bit fuzzy on the FERC intent, so I'll withhold comment except to say that stylistically I'd like to see this as a feature of a theoretical future "Phase III" list.

Tunneler:  I like the idea of a Tunneler mechanic, but in our list the issue preventing its use is the synapse control - none of the tunnelers can bring in their own synapse.  There are a number of potential work-arounds for that, but I think it deserves a separate discussion.  There are too many things that its dependent on.


Units:

In general, the French units tend to be more shooty and more "bugzilla" in terms of power-per-unit.  I'd approach this with a large amount of care.

LV Synapse:  This is workable if you cut the synapse range/going to ground mechanic and/or if you allow more synapse  per swarm but otherwise it's a problem.  Options to "stack" synapse creatures and build groups could mitigate that somewhat.  Also, the question of unit type consistency with other similar size/genus needs to be addressed.

Zoa:  Based on 40K, I think this needs to be a Synapse Creature.  This might provide a potential middle ground between the people that would like to be able to build synapse groups and those that want them fixed.  The groups are fixed except for the option of adding Zoanthropes.


List structure:

The French system has some strengths.  The representation of Warriors as the near omnipresent tool of the hive mind is kind of neat once I got to looking at it.  It never hurts to put all those Nid Warrior models everyone has sitting around to work, either.

If the Swarm system is to be dumped, though, the Ork structure needs some tweaks.

First, there needs to be a horde discount, imho.  Otherwise, there is very little incentive to take larger swarms.  A popcorn list might not be a problem with respect to balance, but it is with respect to flavor.  Smaller swarms result in a more tactically flexible army, especially since you can easily have 2-3 BM-placing units in each.  Larger swarms need to be incentivized in some way.

Second, there should be some sort of division of common swarms and support swarms.  As the French list stands, it could be fielded without a single Synapse Creature and/or it could be fielded with a majority of elite units.  It might be that those uncharacteristic builds aren't really viable anyway but they should be restricted for flavor reasons.


All that said, I'd still rather look at ways to work with the Swarm system that could incorporate some of the benefits of the Ork template.

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Edit:  Doh!    I just downloaded the last FERC revision and noticed Big/Uge discounts had been incorporated.

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Neal

That makes the entire situation simpler. Control range is checked at the end of action. I like the ability to combine swarms at end phase and don't want to give that up.

I'll copy & paste here some comments from my latest battle report concerning some of the suggested modifications to V9.1.

- 20 cm move for Warriors > This is great. No longer do the Warriors slow down their swarm. Please, pretty please, implement this in the next version as it really helps those poor infantry swarms.

- Lictors with Sniper > never really used, they only engaged the Rough Riders and the Sniper ability didn't make any difference. But I think it's better than MW.

- Hormagaunts with 2xCC5+ > This is OK. I still think First Strike would help them and the infantry swarms a lot, but I can live without it. Would 2xCC5+, FS and +25pts for 4 Hormagaunts be too much?

- All units ignore difficult terrain > Love it. I quickly lost count of the number of difficult terrain tests I should have made without this rule.

- +2 to Engage > This felt right. Tyranids can finally do the only thing they are good at without fear of failing the activation (unless you retain and have BMs, but that's perfectly normal).

- +2 to rally rolls > This felt good, perhaps a little too good even. I think it's OK to see Tyranids rally easily, they should, but I may be biased. +2 puts them just above Marines in terms of rallying. +1 is just like Marines. Personally, I'd go for +2.

- "Disposable Gaunts" > I would make Gaunts (or even Common Broods) count only half their losses in assault in order to give a chance to all-infantry formations (or armies, for that matter). Right now they just don't stand the comparison to the big 'nid units (Bio-titans & co.).

- +25 points to Hierophant > It's really, really good and feels a bit cheap at 275 pts. It's faster than most units, it's very resilient, it's shooty (for 'nids anyway) and very strong in assault.