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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
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(Soren @ Nov. 17 2007,09:09)
QUOTE Kay now I will take it a litte bit personal. ? 
Well, it was personal, a personal challenge, which I think you're more than capable of taking up! ?I would love to see your Tyranids, both in play and pictures and see how you play them. ?That's the "personal challenge" I was laying down.
As you can read in your own post, i wrote "No guts to cleanup lists" I think this speaks of more than one. But you are right, not deleting a unit not existing anyway is exactly what I mean. I don?t know where you see a reason for laughing.
I laugh a lot, I'm a funny guy (drives the wife crazy). ?I laughed, 1) Because, on the face of it, the idea that removing a single unit from a list would be a big "clean-up" is humourous to me. ?I also laughed because I was in a good mood at the time of writing that and didn't want to appear pissed off.
I think you simply do not see the point. Tyranids have only the Vituperator (Ravener) agreed, but many lists have many "Vituperators". ?It always begins with only 1 Vituperator added.
And I also laughed because you were posting an actually important point in an obscure corner of forums and it sadly amused me that so few people would see it. ?And then I laughed at the thought of the backlash you'd probably receive if you posted such a thing in the Tau forums. ?(Sorry Tau players!) ?So, that's why I laughed.
To playtests: I have a beautiful painted 3.000 pts tyranid army next to me (Bleached Bone-Red I think it?s Kraken pattern). I am always hesitating why I painted it over the last 2 years. My problem is: NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY AGAINST THEM.
So, none of your mates want to prove that the Bugs are "broken" and get them fixed? ?They do realize that playing against them and losing isn't something to be ashamed/worried about as you would be *playtesting* not *competing*? ?Do they not like to lose or do they not understand the reason for playtesting?
Honestly, I can understand highly competitive people not wanting to playtest against "unbalanced" lists, because they don't like losing; I have a few players around here like that. ?So, what I did was let *them* play the Tyranids and I tried their armies against them and it worked out really well.
You will get your freaking battle report if you are able to clean up the special rules to a stage I can explain them my opponents in a matter of minutes, not hours. Even if this was changed at 8.4 (and I don?t believe this), it's not feeled (at least not by players not involved in the evolution process as you and me).
If you haven't even read the 8.4 list, you don't have a lot to go on here, I'd recommend just going over the special rules; the "basic" Tyranid rules fit on a single page, and here's a "one minute overview" that should let opponents get some kind of understanding. ?I'm not trying to be patronizing here, the Bug rules are definitely "different" from playing against standard armies, and all the assumptions that entails. ?You just have to say, this is a playtest, and trust me to explain as we play.
Simplified Tyranid Rules
Tyranid Swarms:
Brood creatures have to stay within 15cm of their Synapse Creatures or die; doesn't apply during assaults. ?In the End Phase, they can be assigned to other nearby Synapse creatures if desired. ?
Instinctive:
The Tyranid version of "broken"; formation is still active, but can only Engage or Hold, and have -2 to Action tests. Count as having Blast markers.
Relentless:
Tyranids get Blast markers, but don't get suppressed or break. ?The go instinctive instead of breaking anytime a normal formation would break. ?In the End Phase they lose all Blast markers and return to normal.
Voracious:
Tyranids get +1 when attempting Engage or March actions.
Regeneration:
In the Enc Phase, some Tyranid war engines can roll a D6 per 2DC they start with, each 5+ restores a lost 1DC.
Spawning:
Swarms led by Synapse creatures make a Rally test in the End Phase; if they succeed they get points that can be used to return Brood creatures to play.
Tournament Scenario:
Only Independent and Synapse creatures can claim objectives, as well instinctive swarms can't.
You get "Break the Spirit" against Tyranids if you kill half or more of their Synapse creatures.
For Tie-Breaker, Synapse creatures are worth double their points, Independents are normal, and Broods are worth half.
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I cannot really follow you Hena, why is the list too broken? (should be discussed in another topic, I know)