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Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Aye, at the least round up.


Plus, half of one (A Hive Tyrant) rounded down, is zero. :D




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Charad
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:40 pm 
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Dominatrixes demise should have great effect with swarm.
No rounding down, full DC as synapse feels right.
Dominatrix can have those bodyguards and then it is not easily taken down.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:01 pm 
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No rounding down, full DC as synapse feels right.


Agreed.

If the Dominatrix is too vulnerable, that's it's own problem, not the BTS goal's. :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:09 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 24 2007,20:01)
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If the Dominatrix is too vulnerable, that's it's own problem, not the BTS goal's. :)

Very well said, E&C.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:06 am 
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F?r InvulnerableSave for the Dominatriy: In E40k it had a Warpfield to protect itself. It was the only bio-tizan with some sort of protection.
I think this justifies it to withand even Deathstrike missiles.

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Hojyn
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:01 am 
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Hi Hena,

I really like all of your suggested changes.

The only thing I would add is this : reduce the Hydraphant's and Hierophant's move to 20 cm.

That way, they would be unable to launch a turn 2 assault in the opponent's deployment zone (60cm march on turn 1 + 20 cm assault move on turn 2 = 80 cm, and deployment zones must be 90 cm apart). Quite a lot of people on the French epic_fr forum seem to think their speed makes them too powerful. Also, that would make them on par with the Hierodules and Dominatrix.

Other points :

- Chroma's "weapons slots" idea is cool; ?:)
- BTS based on full DC lost is a great idea, I think (btw, is it "DC lost" or "total DC of destroyed synapse creatures"? There's a big difference);
- Raveners should be armour 5+, at 4+ they are way too good;
- Invulnerable Save would be nice for the Dominatrix (like BlackLegion said, the Inv. Save is appropriate because of the Warp Field, and with only 6DC any additional TK protection would be needed);
- Lictors : aren't they a bit overpowered? Their stats are great, but for only 50 points each they look like a no-brainer to me. Would 75 points per Lictor be too much?

EDIT:

Some players (still on the French epic_fr forum) consider the swarm management rules to be unnecessarily complicated and the spawning rules to be a possible source of problems (mainly due to the fact that you can "teleport" dead bugs from one swarm to another).

The following proposition is my own and not the result of a consensus (far from it, actually! :) ), but here it goes:

- Each swarm is "linked" to a synapse creature (or group of) for the whole game. Coherency rules are still the same;
- Destroyed units and units out of coherency are not placed in a common "dead pool", but there is a "dead pool" for each formation (this may sound complicated, but I've used this system for the Necrons and it's quite easy to use);
- Destroyed and off-table creatures may be brought back via spawning, but they can only come back in their original formation (no "teleportation" from one swarm to another).
- Units in reserve have their own pool and may appear in any swarm (thus according the nid player some tactical flexibility). Once they are spawned, they belong to that swarm for the rest of the game.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:31 pm 
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(Hojyn @ Jan. 25 2007,10:01)
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- BTS based on full DC lost is a great idea, I think (btw, is it "DC lost" or "total DC of destroyed synapse creatures"? There's a big difference);

I would say (and this is how we play), that only the DC of *destroyed* things count towards BTS, just like normal BTS, breaking or "wounding" don't achieve the goal.

- Raveners should be armour 5+, at 4+ they are way too good;

Raveners should be awesome in close combat, so the CC4+ is fine, it's their survivability with Armour 4+ that makes them too strong. ?Hena, if you haven't played with a lot of Raveners you probably won't see the effect. ?Try taking a swarm just of Raveners some time and you'll see some nastiness.

- Lictors : aren't they a bit overpowered? Their stats are great, but for only 50 points each they look like a no-brainer to me. Would 75 points per Lictor be too much?
I think I've rarely seen Lictors get their points back. ?The whole "6cm firefight", preventing them from doing anything when assaulted, plus that Tyranids rarely go first, ususally sees them die quite quickly.

Take a look at my last batrep to see a Whirlwind Detachment take them out... in an ASSAULT! ?*laugh*

Some players (still on the French epic_fr forum) consider the swarm management rules to be unnecessarily complicated and the spawning rules to be a possible source of problems (mainly due to the fact that you can "teleport" dead bugs from one swarm to another).
I'm not sure about the complications of the swarm management rules, might some trouble be creeping in in translation to French? ?What do they find overly complicated?

As to the spawning rules, I think it's more a matter of perspective. ?The swarms aren't "teleporting" dead bugs around, they're growing new ones out of local plants and animals, forcing one of their own to rapidly evolve into something new, gathering "gone to ground" Broods that are wandering around, or even having new creatures "dropped" to them in spores. ?The "just appears" is mere a simplification of all those effects.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:35 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 25 2007,13:05)
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Edit: Also realise that OGBM can field a Krawla Gargant that moves 25cm (with upgrade). And it has 8DC with powerfields and fearless.

But that Krawla with upgrade is 500 points (by the OGBM 2.0 rules, at least).

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:56 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 25 2007,13:36)
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I've always thought that 2 gaunts are better than 1 ravener ... So to me personally change to 5+ save is not hard. Really :D.

This is how I look at it:

When you assault with a 'Gaunt swarm, every hit you suffer kills something, as neither 'Gaunt has a save, so that just racks up combat resolution points for your opponent. ?Yes, you've got twice as many attacks, but you will definitely suffer losses, and might even lose your out-numbering bonus.

With Raveners, instead of 1 hit giving the opponent 1 kill, it takes, on average, *2* hits to kill 1 Ravener (and there's always the chance of the Ravener making both saves).

So, if you assault with 20 'Gaunts and take ten hits, that's +10 your opponent has in combat resolution. ?If you assault with 10 Raveners and suffer 10 hits, that's, on average, +5 your opponent gets for kills. ?As well, Ravener swarms caught out in the open can survive getting fired on/barraged, where 'Gaunts just die. ?To me it makes sense just to take Raveners, and Gargoyles.

My solution to the Ravener would be making it a Armour 5+ LV as, in the new Tyranid Codex, it's specifically described as something heavy weapon teams are instructed to target; I'd keep all the other stats the same. ?This would allow for a Common Brood creature that can be appropriate for a Hive Tyrant as well.




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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:55 pm 
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Okay then so its Raveners at CC3+ and 5+ Save @ 30 pts a pop.

This sounds fair to me.

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