Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas |
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas  Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:08 pm |
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As much as I hate to agree with Hena (wink) I've kinda gotten use to the Harridan having a nasty flame weapon.
Its very daunting to play against, and I'd hope the change (if necessary) was more out of some imbalance than anything else.
To me, having that big thing flying around pelting out flames is a bit 'dragon-esk' and I can see just gobs of targets that got to close (orks) being in a really bad way next to this thing.
It would be a shame to see it go - from this non-bug owning player... but I admit, I run one of my friends bugs from time to time as a guilty pleasure. 
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Rob
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:54 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
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The template weapon on the harridan is completely, 100%, totally, against the cannon background & rules.
It should not be in.
The stats we've developed here are a fairly close set to those of the 40k version.
Hena: I'm not sure it needs TK(1). In my playtests MW attacks have been enough so far, though I wouldn't rule it out.
EDIT:
I ran another playtest game on thursday, which I'll be writing up tomorrowl.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:45 pm |
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I'm going to support Hena on the Harridan templates I've decided, and it has nothing to do with my 5 harridans being converted form gargoyles and having flamerish mouths.
I still believe that the breath weapon is just too big to be represented on the 40K scale and that is why it was left off. I mean the 40K inferno gun rules don't do it justice.
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Tyranid air marshal
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:12 pm |
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ragnarok: It's not that the weapon is 'too big' to be represented properly on 40k's scale, it is completely absent. That's where your Inferno gun comparison breaks down.
Absent from the rules, absent from the descriptions, absent from the cannon background for the Harridan.
If we give Harridans 'breath weapons', it will be against the cannon of the universe. That's why I'm against it.
Harridans do not have breath weapons, ergo we should not give Harridans breath weapons. We should find a suitably powerful alternative.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:52 pm |
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I am very happy to be flexible with canon material especialy with nids. we can evolve around it!
Over in the medusa campaign forums several of us have mutated the Harridan into long range bombers, designed to spread vast quantties of cortex leach eggs across imperial terratory.
My comparison with the inferno gun was that such weapons don't work at 40K scale and are either ignored or powered down and nerfed compared to their real potential.
an inferno gun should roast an entire 40K army but it doesn't. This doesn't mean we should change the epic rules to reflect its ability at 40K.
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Tyranid air marshal
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:14 pm |
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No but it does mean that we shouldn't (In my opinion) invent totally new weapons like a spore cannon that simply do not exist on the Harridan.
Large weapon systems may have a comparatively smaller effect (per game turn) in 40k, but over the course of a whole game they will have a pretty similar result to a single activation in Epic.
Can a Harridan shoot down a whole bunch of aircraft with its spore cannon in 40k? Or melt legions of troops with its S10 AP2 breath weapon? No, because it does not have either ability, either in the game or in the background.
Harridans are armed with Bio Cannons and Massive Talons, and transport Gargoyles.
That's what they do in the background and in 40k, and that's what they should do in Epic.
If you want a flying creature in Epic with a spore cannon, make one up, and preferably, call it a Vituraptor.
I feel very strongly that we should not mess with the cannon of the game just because we want overpowered flame template weapons.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:41 am |
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I'm not trying to mess with canon to get an over powered MW flamer weapon (I've been fighting for the amount of MW to be dropped for over a year), I would be happy with an AP5+/AT6+/AA6+ disrupt.
What I am fighting for is to be flexible with the canon. Not as flexible as GW is willing to be, but still flexible  .
As already mentioned it is the image of a giant fire breathing reptile that the harridan evokes. Our very own pet dragon. 
And I think I'll keep on about the differance between 40K and epic (I am as stubbon as a mule or possible a dwarf). In 40K vultures, valkyries and harridans are all flyers, yet in epic they are skimmers (though I think the harridan fits support craft better). Some things just don't easily work in both systems.
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Tyranid air marshal
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:59 pm |
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The aircraft discrepancy is because you can't represent different aircraft speeds in 40k's scale.
And the harridan is not a fire breathing dragon. That may be a cool image, but a harridan has two big talons and a twin-linked bio-cannon.
I've said it before and it bares repeating, if you want a fire breathing dragon, invent your own and call it a vituraptor.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:10 pm |
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That's a change that happened in the previous thread. IIRC it was simply to give a more definite diference between the Harridan & the Vituraptor. I wouldn't be opposed to moving it back to 4+ in principle.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:49 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Okay, third time the charm.
By me, posted in all the wrong places.
I can't remember why (nor can I find a post about it) are the Hierodrules fatser than the trygon?
Sure it is 10cm faster on the charge, and can ignore ZoC, though as a WE it can barge anyway.
But it looks so slow.
This think moves 6+D6" a turn in 40K (and 18+D6" when chargeing ) compared to the heirodules 6" (12" chrage).
Could we drop infiltrate and up its speed to something funky and giant ravener like?
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