Chroma's MIA. As E&C notes, his baby was due just about a week ago, so I can understand his inability to respond.

I don't intend to do any sort of list revision or otherwise step in as AC. I'm just hoping to guide conversation so that there is at least something resembling a majority opinion to work from.

Ah, that's entirely understandable then, I hadn't realised a little one was expected.

I'm glad to see the list moved forward - I actually think 9.2.1 plays well and has seen a lot of testing, but it is rather over-wordy/special-rule-laden. I think it's pretty balanced though, whereas I'm a bit dubious about Jormungandr after it massacred my marines with complete ease at Winter Warmer.

+1

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

The way you played them I wouldn't blame the list...

_________________

Off-Topic question, kinda... Why is there no re-spawning for War Engines? From a fluff perspective, the big war engines have their flesh knitting together right before the eyes of the Space Marines, so I'm just asking...

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Mosc: There used to be a regeneration rule that meant they could regain a DC in the end phase, but it was felt to be a special rule too far in a list already swarming with special rules, and they all just had a DC bump instead.

Swarming with special rules... Punny!

I was just asking. Necron Living Metal should have the same attributes too but I recall we killed that idea a long time ago for the same reasons.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

You killed the idea of Living Metal as regeneration because there were too many special rules in the Necron List? And then made Living Metal a special rule anyway?

With everyone calling for simplification, what exactly is "too many".

Eldar have:
an unit-based initiative/army wide special rule (Farsight)
an army wide special rule (Hit and Run)
2 unit-based special rules (Holofields, Lance)
a portal rule
a portal objective rule
a tourney scenario mod

Necrons have:
2 unit-based special rule (Necron, Living Metal)
a portal rule
a portal objective rule
an initiative special rule (implacable advance)
an army wide special rule (Phase Out)
a tourney scenario mod

Given those, we could have 'nids with the following, have room for a few more and wouldn't be breaking new ground:
expendable
planetary assault
spawning
an initiative special rule (+X to rally/engage)
a tourney scenario mod (allow absorbing and penalize brood without synapse)

I understand the need to be simple but I don't want it so simple that it's at the expense of army flavor. There a balance that can be found I think.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

About the maximum that should be considered, according to an old piece of advice from Jervis.


Isn't that the rule that you're proposing that is basically just the planetfall rule, re-written a bit?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

So we've got 7 special rules we can play with effectively, and that's assuming Jervis was referring to the pared down NetEA version and not the Swordwind version that had an additional 2 rules in it. Given the list above we've got room for 2 more in a Phase III list if 7 is our max, 4 if it's 9.

Aside from not being tied to a spacecraft, randomized turn arrival per formation and randomized area arrival per formation, ya it's basically planetfall.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Use Planetfall, then.

It's close enough that you can "cheat" to use an existing rule, and aren't filling up the game with lots of randomness (That being bad for a tactical game), too.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It's not just total number of rules. It's also how much text it takes to explain them clearly and how wonky it makes the game.

I didn't kill it - Corey did. I think I agreed with him at the time though. Nuance at this point.
-
I think the planetfall discussion is better off in the Onachus list thread (see Dave's sig).

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Personally I think eldar and necrons have too many rules and one or two could have been cut.

Also, it's not just about the number of rules; the simplicity of each rule and the word count matter too.

I am somewhat with Dave here. It is not like other armies do not violate the basic rules. Eldar breaks the standard movement and retaining rules, Marines break the blast markers' rule. There are other armies that in order to achieve certain play styles disobey basic game mechanics.

I can see the need for simplification, better wording etc, but let's play fair.

The main thing is that every special rule has to fill a Tyranid-ish purpose. If it causes the army to behave and play in the desired manner, then yes, there can be rules' exceptions.

/Fredmans