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[OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
Markconz
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:06 am 
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(Charad @ Oct. 05 2007,05:34)
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-limiting withdrawal move could help with instictive engages across table

Considered that myself. Trouble is limiting it means you can lose a whole lot of units by not clearing 15cm. Plus you are still better off losing an assault than winning an assault for the purposes of moving and engaging which just seems wrong.  Also it introduces yet another non-standard mechanism.

Also  despite supporting the idea originally, once I read up on it, allowing engages after instinctive/broken doesn't match up with the nature of tyranids falling back in 40k. So I don't really see it's that important to keep the engage (or shooting) idea anyway given all the confusion and complications it causes.

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Dave
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:10 pm 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 04 2007,20:55)
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Thought it might be useful  to compare what the various Tyranid Instinctive rule proposals allow in actual practice (the meat and bones of them)...

v8.3
*Instinctive can move once if non-activated (but can double if broken in an engage if activated or not).
*OR nonactivated Instinctive can shoot (because tyranids are famous for their shooting :p :;): )
*Instinctive can support (as above...)
*Suppression effects ignored

v8.4 As v8.3 but add:
*Nonactivated Instinctive can engage, or can double and engage if they lose an engagement, or move only 5cm and engage if they win an engagement (because losing is better for some reason...)

What about this scenario.

1) Unactivated swarm is charged and looses.
2) Swarm becomes instinctive and gets to double
3) Instinctive swarm can then engage.
4) Instinctive swarm could loose again and would get to double again.

Those are some really fast bugs.  Add to that supporting other firefights... this is just getting into the realm of very silly.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:35 pm 
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(Dave @ Oct. 05 2007,15:10)
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1) Unactivated swarm is charged and looses.
2) Swarm becomes instinctive and gets to double
3) Instinctive swarm can then engage.
4) Instinctive swarm could loose again and would get to double again.

Those are some really fast bugs. ?Add to that supporting other firefights... this is just getting into the realm of very silly.

After losing *two* assaults, there's not going to be much left in those swarms...

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Dave
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:00 pm 
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With no limit on the size of the swarm, how can you be so sure?

At any rate, that's the extreme example.  Even the examples Markonz gave were still pretty ridiculous, and more apt to occur.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:17 am 
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(Dave @ Oct. 05 2007,19:00)
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With no limit on the size of the swarm, how can you be so sure?

At any rate, that's the extreme example.  Even the examples Markonz gave were still pretty ridiculous, and more apt to occur.

Re the first point - or all the fearless for that matter.

But yes even without that it's all pretty crazy. Plus even if the mechanisms weren't mixed up, confusing and unbalanced  - there no good justification for the effects they are seeking to create anyway.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Is there a quick reference sheet for 8.4?

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alansa
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:30 pm 
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Love this list - much nicer than 8.3 - agree that the rules can be, and need to be simplified - markconz suggestions look good to me.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:40 pm 
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(Hena @ Nov. 10 2007,10:45)
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Synapse node without regeneration, is this intentional or typo?

Intentional... other than the Harridan, which might get reviewed anyway, I didn't want anything with an odd number of DC having regen.

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Dave
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:21 am 
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What do people think of this for Uncommon Brood Group limits:

Instead of "You may purchase one Uncommon Brood Group per two Common Brood Groups in the army"

Use "The number of army points spent on Uncommon Brood Groups may not exceed the number spent on Common Brood Groups."

I thought it was a little more elegant.

Also, looking at the Uncommon Brood Groups as they currently are, I don't see a reason why they should be in groups. Aside from Zoanthropes and Carnifex, everything breaks down to round numbers. Brood Groups for the lesser creatures I think has its uses, but not for the bigger ones. If we moved to the re-word above we could go back to individual Uncommon Brood creatures.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:57 pm 
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I don't like the you may buy one uncommon brood fr every two common broods you buy.

I ended up spending almost no points on uncommon brood creatures this way.  I much prefer the upto x%, which is what I will be using in my KISS playtest.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Rag, I got 500pts of uncommon broods in a 3000pt, and I could have put another 2 broods worth in if I had really wanted too but I just didn't have the points. It doesn't seem that bad. Why wouldn't you want to go to battle with 48 stands of guants and gargoyles.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:30 pm 
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Persinally I like the one uncommon per common variant.

In my last battle this allowed me to field 650 points of uncommons in my 2700 point army.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:34 pm 
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(Lightbringer @ Feb. 14 2008,16:30)
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Persinally I like the one uncommon per common variant.

In my last battle this allowed me to field 650 points of uncommons in my 2700 point army.

I'm thinking about changing this to 1 for 1, as, in Phase IV, "Uncommons" shouldn't be *that* uncommon.

I don't really like the "percentages" thing, just doesn't seem Buggy enough.  *laugh*

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: [OLD!] Tyranids 8.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:51 pm 
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I agree and thats how it is in the Markonz variant ...

http://www.box.net/shared/4kstaal0cg

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