Indeed no, and it's going to be removed from the NetEA list when it's updated.


Ah, I thought it referred to a Warhound Titan in that text.


I'll eyeball it at a later date for you.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It should be. There's nothing wrong with adding new units that fit with the background, but invented units that are specifically against GW fluff should have no place in the netEA project.

Actually, the Vituperator *is* being removed from the "core" NetEA list and being shifted to use in any Bio-Titan based lists that wish to.

All GW text says that the Harridan is the "biggest known Tyranid flyer" and that's how they'll be represented in the core list; additionally, Harpies will be added to the core list, because, according to fluff, they've been there all along. *sigh* This will allow people to use their original "small" Harridan models as Harpies, if desired, and any fan-made Vituperators as Harridans, or they can keep using little Harridans as Harridans and Vituperators as *big* Harridans.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Epic doesn't equal 40k, but 40k Fluff *does* equal Epic Fluff, and it's been a strong point in the fluff that Harridans are the biggest flyer.

Whatever plans Jervis, et al, had for bigger flyers for Tyranids have long since been shelved/discarded by the GW design team, heck, they've gone the *opposite* direction with Harpies; even in all the fluff there hasn't even been a hint of a bigger flyer, but there have been hints of bigger almost everything else, so that's quite telling.

The *Expectorator* was also in the list when Jervis was doing it, but no one (or very few) has complained about its removal... and I even made a model for one using an old Biovore... so an appeal that it's "being in there since the start" doesn't hold much weight.

It will be strongly encouraged that Vituperators be included in any "Bio-Titan" focused lists that occur, as that's a place where "big ones" could reasonably be expected to show up.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Hena: Epic has always had WEs that 40k doesn't, but that's not the point here. The point here is that the background says there are no bigger flyers than the harridan. If we ignore clear background like that then we're just not playing a game in the 40k universe.

Epic can have extra war engines than 40k, but not ones which specifically can't exist.

You seem to be missing the point here Hena, the decision has nothing to do with "Epic has always had WEs which 40k doesn't", it's got to do with this: There's no mention of an "even bigger" flyer anywhere in any of the Tyranid texts, stories, or references, but there *is* mention, that "the Harridan is the largest flyer" in multiple places.

Practically every other war engine, both Tyranid and other, has at least had passing mention in flavour text somewhere, even if it hasn't made it into actual game stats; and there are hints of "even bigger" Tyranid ground-based creatures, but the one, shockingly consistent for GW I might add, bit of flavour text that has been with us for a very long time is that "Harridans are the biggest Tyranid flyer".

The unit will be being moved for use in Bio-Titan lists, not erased from all use.

Show me any text that says for certain that DE, or Necrons or LatD don't have war engines.

There's a big difference here; those races don't say one way or the other in the background, so we are free to invent a little, but the nids are very clear that there are no bigger flyers.

Actually, no it couldn't, you seem to be over-simplifying things.

All those armies have had "veiled mentions" of having bigger, war engine-class, units; there is no text that says "These armies have no war engines" in a broad, overarching way... not that LatD are really mention *anywhere* any more... *laugh* If such a direct statement *did* exist for an army/race, then it would be going against background to include made up war engines for them in an EPIC list.

A better example, say focusing on Necrons, would be if, early in development, the Necrons had a "Warp-based" war engine; it doesn't matter if it's tested and balanced, Necron flavour text constantly says that the Warp is anathema to the C'Tan and the Necrons, to include such a war engine would be completely against the background, regardless of game-based merits, and would be better off cut from the list.

To use the old list itself to justify the existence of "A big Harridan" in the current lists is circular reasoning; every other instance of Tyranid background text indicates such a thing does *not* exist, even in a throw-away reference; it's the one place where GW flavour text is remarkably clear and consistent. Many other entries/stories have hints and rumours of "something bigger", but Tyranid flyers top out at "Harridan", full stop, in all GW text.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

[DA] Tyranids are constantly evolving, and the imperium is discovering new strains of them all the damn time. there are no known instances of a bigger flier than a harridan, but what is that? wow, its a bigger flier. turns out that just like the ymargls, and the pyrovores and the hive guard, we just hadnt seen them yet. GW will in no way limit themselves to that if the fluff gets in the way of something they want to do. why should we? [/DA]

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

Jormu got 3rd out of 22 players today in Bristol. I think for the most part it's a reasonable list and that seemed to be my opponent's perception too. Even planetfalling mini-titans and medium-titans (Vitu + 3 hierodules in this case) wasn't that bad. For starters, that's 1k points off the board and then it's not guaranteed they will come in where they are supposed to since planning is before any deployment. Vitu + 12 hormies as I used ran over anything I targeted with them, especially as I was retaining with them after the spacecraft activation. They never knew what hit them. Well actually they did and it was 24 dice at 5+, 6 at 4+ and 2 TK(1) at 4+. Shame that after that they were invariably firefought into oblivion and even if the Vitu only died once in 3 games, he spent most of the time broken. Would having termies/gargoyles instead of hormies fix that? The hierodules were left to activate after since nids can't triple-retain and did fairly poorly. One game they were shot to pieces and did nothing; the second they dropped so conservatively that they might as well have been deployed standard (they did end up chewing a warhound in that game); the third they dropped on the enemy blitz and ate a tactical squad fairly easily but were mostly unmolested.
Overall I'd say that the normal nid ground pounder list w/ max synapse and lots of resilience is a better list. Flashy tactics like planetfalling is fine with a better SR and more mobile, longer-ranged fms that can then set up the landing better. Still a curiosity that should exist in the Epic universe. A question that came up in all 3 games was about the mycetic spores. They come 'free' w/ the spacecraft but are they 3 separate fms? A single fm? Obviously they can't form an fm w/ the units they carry otherwise those could never go anywhere! Our shared view was that:
1) they shouldn't contest or control objectives on their own;
2) best if they are just markers like the imperial drop pods as otherwise they're 3 very, very cheap activations;
You're the creator, you decide!

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Treat them like drop pods, it's the only workable solution.