Cool, but we're kind drifting off-topic here.

I'd recommend a new thread in the more general sections, as this seems to involve a lot more than just Bugs!

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I think the problem is that we are really not seeing such miniatures used in games against anything other than marines...

Regarding the original topic that started the thread I don't think there's necessarily a problem there.  When writing up your army list you design in part for your own plan and strengths but also factor in units and strategies to combat the group of normal armies that you come up against.  If a new army is thrown into the mix that plays differently and requires different strategies to beat then I would expect those lists to change to take it into account.  Otherwise, what's the point in having the new army?  When Swordwind came out I'm sure people changed their lists to incorporate some elements dealing with Eldar so why be any different for Tyranids?  I don't think it necessarily makes them overpowered, just something to adapt to.

No battle report for this one but Blish and I had a 3000 point Ork(green tide) vs Nid (nidzilla) battle that we stopped after turn 2 as it was already midnight. We figured it would have gone to turn 4 and could have been a draw.

Nid weakness:
Blish made a great tactical decision and charged the nids. By doing so, he swarmed the fromt ranks and left little room to move. What this invariably did was only allow the nids a 5cm counter charge which saw great units such as the Haruspex having to use it's FF value instead of CC. By not allowing the nids to do the charging, he invariably cut down half if not more of their CC attacks. If there is a way to combat the nids in assault, this is the way to do it.

Statistic: 4 assaults and the Orks won 3 of these. This included a Harridan charging a broken squad of 2 nobs and 5 boyz to get the BTS and getting slaughtered in the process - could not roll a 4+ on 8 dice *shakes head*

Observations:
Raveners: The Raveners do play well. Their 5+ FF is the only question, however this may be offset with the fact that thay cannot claim cover saves being LV. They are really the only base common troop in the nid list with a save and I am at odds to say that they are balanced as they are. Perhaps the 5+ FF IS warranted. Be interested in more games with these guys.

Gaunts: These appear to be there for the numbers and nothing else. I find what they do in combat is minimal, and you really are relying on your WE or your uncommons to get you through an assault. I personally like the rules as they stand with these guys (no BM, half in combat, respawn etc) as I personally find they have a minimal, yet sometimes important role, in making sure that the tyranid assaults do not fall to pieces.

War Engines: Blish proved that mass firepower, and those damnable weirdboys can take down war engines. I lost a Harridan, a Heirophant and the Vitupertor had taken 2 wounds. Although he could not really touch the Dominatrix Unit (Dom + 2 Heirodule + 3 Haruspex), all other units were getting hammered by the massed firepower, 2 straffing Ork Landas, and assaults from said landers when it suited him to sacrafice them to get the final wounds on the War Engines.

It was a very enjoyable game for me and I am glad I was able to start testing the nids against another balanced force which was made to combat ANY army and not just made to come up against nids (he did not know what he was going to be against when he arrived that day, and I agreed to play at the last moment with my nids on Blish's approval).

From last nights game alone, I think the 9.2.1 is balanced, however I would like to play more games and send reports (still one coming from the last game Morgan and I had).

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Just to touch on what frogbear said and to throw in my 2cents on the nids. Let me start off on saying I'm unsure of how they have gone against marines, but I do hear that most games have been against them.

Ok I had no Gargants and 1 blitz brigade and 1 big blitz brigade, and squad of Kult of speed. The rest of my force was boyz, two landas and a base group of stormboys.

Well from having a brief look at the list of nids book (not his army list), i decided what was best for the orks to do was charge. The best way and I know this way sounds funny to most people is to in fact charge the nids as yes it prevent them from fighting me. It allows me to fight and charge who I want to fight and with what I want in cc and what I don't. I find this method always best as I find usually the opp army has his best troops to the middle or rear of the group that I'm charging.

As Frog said we had 4 assault's and I did win 3 out of the 4.

Ok from what I did see Ravengers with there 3+cc and 5+FF are to cheap, I would like to see them maybe as 4+cc and 5+FF. Reason for this is from what I could see if I killed them they give no blast markers. From memory the most blast markers I did get up was three, and from what I could see basically a min of three are removed each turn.(at least that is what happendend in our game)

Gaunts are almost the same as Gretchin for orks from what I could see, but against orks not that great. I can see how they could destroy marines and Elder with ease.

Now War Engines

Ok my force did not have to many hard hitting units that could take them out, but that was my choice. I guess like hand to hand you need to make them come to you and charge in hth when possible. Frogbear had a lot of Warengines, by the looks of it. Maybe 6 in total which inc a few titans i believe. I guess I was a little worried about a unit of his that a Dominatri, 2 Heirodule and 3 Haruspecx. I guess looking back at these units they are not too bad and I could have and should
have dealt with the 3 Haruspecx and maybe 1 Heairdule, which I believe I could have torn apart. That being said my kult of speed unit worth 200pts did hold up this hughe unit for two turns on there own.

In General I could see how army's like marines and Eldar may struggle against army's like nids, but I do believe orks, Chaos and Imp guards should hold there own against the nids

We did only play two turns, but if the game went to the end it may had been my first lose in a very long time.

One thing I would like to see people do is to play with a lot more genestealers, as a good four units of these would hurt like hell.
Anyway I did enjoy the game and maybe I can play against the nids again soon and we can finish the game and post it.

I find this method always best as I find usually the opp army has his best troops to the middle or rear of the group that I'm charging.

Looking through the list from a tournament perspective its interesting. There armies will invarably have suicide deep strikes, death strikes, maybe also spaceships and the like.

That makes stuff like the unshielded synapses a risky proposition. Equally however their is no infantry synapse, making an infantry swarm non viable.

It seems you have managed to get the list to be used with a variety of creatures rather than an extreme build as seen with other lists (all AV/all Inf armies for instance), stopped the nidzilla list from being quite so good. Whether or not having a gaunt horde is nessecery for the background or not I don't know, but it certainly doesn't look that possible. I guess players have to do the maths on wether to get the LV ravenors or cheap gaunts to saok up AP fire and a few av's to take the rest before the lv's get tagged.

It certainly grates against my very soul not to be able to make too many single type swarms (av/WE/inf)! Oh the powergamer in me just died a little Though it would live on long enough to give an LV army a go.

The biggest popcorn swarm I can make (taking advantage of the synapse discount on the hive tyrant when part of a tyranid warrior group) seems to be 5 warriors + tyrant, 1 warriors, 8 lots of ravenors, 2 lots of lictors, 4 lots of stealers with 2 broodlords. 78 units don't seem like that much, especially when they are making relatively small formations. Alternatively could go for an av horde made up of 10 tyrants and 8 ravenors/carnifex (though looks pretty poor) with again the lictors and stealers. 16 activations which is the absolute limit, but most will just fold and seems an easy way to give away the BTS.
Nidzilla wise if you want to risk the dominatrix there is always, dominartrix, vituperator, tyrant, warriors, 2 gargoyles, trygon, 4 raveners, 2 hierodule, 2 lictors, 6 stealers, 1 brood, or dominartrix, vituperator, tyrant, warriors, 2 gargoyles, 4 raveners, 3 Trygon, 2 lictors 4 harridans, with the latter I think packing int he maximum WE possible in the list if you still want your lictors (and why not?).

Anyone tried any of the above style armies? And are Genestealers popular? Those things are roughriders on speed. The only reason I wouldn't take 6 broods is I want two lots of suicide lictors to kill the enemy SC/deathstrikes/similar. Extra activations, scouts, forward garrissons, yay.

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Chroma

Are we able to get the next update to this list (say 9.2.2) with the updated scripting on the rules?

There seem to be a few things including the rewording on the spawning to be clearer, as well as the most recent clarrification on the Broodlord. I forget what else was being considered for a re-write but I am sure you have all the info.

Thanks

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Well?

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I think his silence probably means something like "I am busy and will get around to it when I can". Just a thought...

To borrow a phrase from my transatlantic cousins; "chill, dude".

Just keeping this active. That's all.

Not being agro or anything....  

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Sorry, was at the dentist for root canal prep yesterday... have been a bit out of it.

The next update shouldn't be too far off, but, as has been said, there's been some other, broader, projects on my plate.

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Cheers......

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What would thoughts be on the following:

- Making Raveners only available in Tunneling Swarms (and possibly drop the price)
- Making Tyranid Warriors Infantry
- Maybe Add a Tyrant Guard type unit, but this is less important than the other 2 changes

This would have the potential effect of: No more worries about LV and taking hordes of raveners over gaunts, as you could now take a pure infantry swarm with gaunts and TW. However, such a swarm would be lacking punch.  To counteract this, you could add Assault Spawn and a Hive Tyrant, creating a mixed swarm, but one that is still relatively resilient.  The Tyrant guard unit would basically be a 4+ reinforced armor (or maybe just 4+) brood unit with 5+cc/ff that could absorb hits for the Tyrant (and of course only be purchased in swarms w/ a tyrant).

Although I really like the relentless and spawning portions of the list, I think the classification of certain units could use looking at.  As it is, Raveners are crucial to the success of the list, to the extent that you'll likely see more of them than gaunts, which is strange (regardless of what version of 40k Nids you're trying to emulate).

In this way, Raveners find their niche as the tunneling shock-troops of the force rather than as the catch-all shields they are now and Core Swarms can be all infantry (but punchless) or mixed and slightly more vulnerable to massed fire.

Any thoughts?  Sorry if this has been suggested before.