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Tyranid AA
Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:46 am 
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There are a list of potential good and bad things about it that I see.

Just for a start though it seems a very expensive way of providing even a modicum of air cover to advancing swarms. 1 AA 5+ attack will cost 275 point minimum, and be on a specialised WE?  (While we're on WE what's happening with the weapons fit Chroma or others?)

What did you have in mind for spawn E&C?

It's all good, keep ideas coming. :D

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Kagetora
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:46 am 
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(Markconz @ Nov. 09 2007,01:24)
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(Kagetora @ Nov. 09 2007,00:16)
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Then improving the Spores, AND giving more of the Larger Bio-Titans (DC4+ ones) the Energy Blast that the Dom has. ?THAT can provide the cover for the advancing swarms.

So Tyranid forward AA has to be WE? ????

Well, why not?  We used to have non-WE AA fire.  You guys obliterated that ages ago (Zoanthropes).  Lots of people don't like Infantry flying up and clogging engines.  None of the Vehicles really fit the bill.

So why not WE's?  Whats wrong with that?  They stride or fly forward, covering the smaller swarms from the Air Power.  Makes sense to me.
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Kagetora
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:50 am 
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(Markconz @ Nov. 09 2007,01:46)
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There are a list of potential good and bad things about it that I see.

Just for a start though it seems a very expensive way of providing even a modicum of air cover to advancing swarms. 1 AA 5+ attack will cost 275 point minimum, and be on a specialised WE? ?(While we're on WE what's happening with the weapons fit Chroma or others?)

What did you have in mind for spawn E&C?

It's all good, keep ideas coming. :D

Well, as I said, I have changed my mind.  I really DO think 'Nids should have decent stationary AA, and crap for other AA when they assault out from under their flak envelope.

Very mediocre AA on expensive Titans I see as perfectly reasonable, when combined with the more stationary Spores.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:53 am 
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So Tyranids have excellent protection for their artillery batteries but actual tryanid assault swarms (which is what tyranids are supposed to be all about) get bombed to pieces.

Sorry no. Not the sort of tyranid list I want.

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Kagetora
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:00 am 
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Shall we just give them Obliterators and Firestorms then?

What DO you want?
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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:17 am 
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(Kagetora @ Nov. 09 2007,01:00)
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Shall we just give them Obliterators and Firestorms then?

What DO you want?

In cased you missed it I'll say it again:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....d228792


I have yet to see a better idea than the current setup (or something very close to it like simply extending AA range on gargoyles).

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:00 am 
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I still don't think Nids should have AA units. It doesn't seem right. A more abstract way would seem simpler and stop all the arguments about what unit should it be? What the unit should have? blah blah blah.... Couldn't the idea that there are always swarms of nid stuff in the air be related with a rule like I proposed earlier? The opponent gets a 50/50 chance to bring his aircraft on and the nid player gets a 50/50 chance to get bombed or not. Pretty balanced IMO.

Essentially, the Nid player wants to avoid aircraft attacks and his opponent wants the opposite. Whether or not a plane gets shot down is immaterial to the Nid player so long as his troops are not being killed. the Nid player may not gain any points bonus from killing planes but he gains a different kind of bonus in that his troops arrive at their target much safer.

If it's special rules accumulation you're truly worried about make the nids pay for it by formation. I'm sure it could be worked out.
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Kagetora
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:15 am 
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(Markconz @ Nov. 09 2007,02:17)
QUOTE

(Kagetora @ Nov. 09 2007,01:00)
QUOTE
Shall we just give them Obliterators and Firestorms then?

What DO you want?

In cased you missed it I'll say it again:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....d228792


I have yet to see a better idea than the current setup (or something very close to it like simply extending AA range on gargoyles).

Well, thats all well and good, but what do you say to all the people who don't want Gargoyles to have AA at all?  Much less 30cm?  And who do want to play the type of Tyranid list where assaulting swarms move out from under the umbrella?

I'm not saying your ideas don't have merit.  I'm simply saying dismissing others' ideas outright because they don't jive with your vision is a pretty poor way of proving the merits of your ideas.

But, since you are not in charge of the Tyranid list, I'm throwing my ideas out there for consideration as well.  If you were in charge, I wouldn't bother, I guess.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:49 am 
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(Dobbsy @ Nov. 09 2007,02:00)
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I still don't think Nids should have AA units. It doesn't seem right. A more abstract way would seem simpler and stop all the arguments about what unit should it be? What the unit should have? blah blah blah.... Couldn't the idea that there are always swarms of nid stuff in the air be related with a rule like I proposed earlier? The opponent gets a 50/50 chance to bring his aircraft on and the nid player gets a 50/50 chance to get bombed or not. Pretty balanced IMO.

Essentially, the Nid player wants to avoid aircraft attacks and his opponent wants the opposite. Whether or not a plane gets shot down is immaterial to the Nid player so long as his troops are not being killed. the Nid player may not gain any points bonus from killing planes but he gains a different kind of bonus in that his troops arrive at their target much safer.

If it's special rules accumulation you're truly worried about make the nids pay for it by formation. I'm sure it could be worked out.

The effect you are arguing for is already achieved with gargoyles, simply, and with a proportional cost.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:52 am 
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(Hena @ Nov. 09 2007,04:33)
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(Markconz @ Nov. 09 2007,02:21)
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Ie, there needs to be  AA support that can keep up with attack swarms (which are what tyranids are all about) as opposed to just defending artillery as the spores do.

Your wrong. Tyranids don't need any faster AA.

Not to defend your dactylis anyway.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:03 am 
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(Hena @ Nov. 09 2007,04:54)
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You still haven't answered how you lived with Zoanthrope AA. That was not fast either. It's utterly wrong to believe that there should be fast AA.

I didn't live with it, that's why it was changed.  And yes tyranids do need something that can provide a modicum of air cover to assault swarms, going out and eating things is tryanids theme, not sitting back under a spore umbrella.

You obviously haven't faced much airpower if you don't think this is a problem.

Frankly given that your views seem so far out of line with the majority that you are refusing to use this list entirely - wouldn't your time be better spent coming up with your own list so we can check that out (rather than going over the same old dead ground)?

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