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[BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:53 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 07 2007,14:35)
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Orks use the Soopastompa formation to sustain on the Brood surrounding the remains of the Dom. ?Total casualties are 7 broods.

Since the Dom is dead, why fire on the Brood creatures?

Were other Synapse close enough to grab them?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:09 pm 
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The Warband in the buildings fires on the biotitan doing 2 points of damage.

The Nid swarm on the right doubles forward into the trees near the Supastompa and Ork baseline. ?One Warrior keeps LoS to the Supastompa just to place a BM in the hopes of slowing them down.

My placement on this move was atrocious. ?A small error kept this game from being a 2-0 win. ?If I had left a single Gaunt out in the open between the body of the swarm and the building, the Supastompa mob would have been unable to move forward without removing the Nids. ?No other formation could have made it across the board to contest objectives, giving the Nids Defend the Flag, and unless the Blitz Brigade in the backfield rallied, Nids had They Shall Not Pass.

I then retained with the biotitan. ?We discussed assaulting the Gargant versus shooting and positioning for next turn. ?I rolled to double move with the actual intent of retreating back to finish off the blitz Brigade and lock in TSNP. ?Neither happened because I failed activation.

I made the second stupendous mistake in a row, moving the titan over to assault range of the Gargant... in front of the Zzaps from the infantry.

The Ork player is worried about an out-of-coherency assault from the broods with the GSN pulling in massive support. ?The supastompa mob doubles forward to fire on the GSN and broods. ?All the broods are killed and there is one point of damage on the node - which criticals. ?(that's 5 WE crits on the Nids so far)

That lucky crit takes away all chance of nid victory this turn. ?Even if they keep TSNP, they no longer have DTF.

The previously broken Warband moves up into buidlings and fires on the biotitan, doing another 2 points of damage.

The Warband and both blitz Brigade fail to rally.

All the Nids succeed in spawning. ?The swarms only get 2-3 models each. ?The LSN on the Blitz gets 6 points (exactly average - 3d3) and goes for Raveners to maximize any potential out of coherency assaults. ?The GSN rolls exactly average 7 points (d3+1 +d3 for 30cm + d3 for spore) and spawns a Heirodule.

The biotitan regenerates back to 5 DC.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:11 pm 
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(Chroma @ Jun. 07 2007,14:53)
QUOTE

(nealhunt @ Jun. 07 2007,14:35)
QUOTE
Orks use the Soopastompa formation to sustain on the Brood surrounding the remains of the Dom.  Total casualties are 7 broods.

Since the Dom is dead, why fire on the Brood creatures?

Were other Synapse close enough to grab them?

Forgive my confusing description.  The Dom was in the middle of the right flank Nid swarm when it died.  The fire was on the big swarm, not on the handful of broods from the Dom.

But yes, the synapse were close enough to pick up the remains of the Dom swarm later on.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:15 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 07 2007,15:11)
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Forgive my confusing description. ?The Dom was in the middle of the right flank Nid swarm when it died. ?The fire was on the big swarm, not on the handful of broods from the Dom.

Ah, that makes much more sense!  Thanks for the clarification.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:22 pm 
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The pic above is after teleports at the beginning of turn 4.
==

Turn 4

LSN teleports to pick up DTF again.  Placed out of LoS where the chances of the Orks maneuvering to it are slim to none.

Right now the Nids can easily claim the Blitz and break the Blitz Brigade to prevent them from contesting.  The orks are fenced in to the point they cannot simply move across to stop TSNP.  They cannot get close enough to contest DTF without pushing the Nids back.  The Nids can contest one T&H and have a good chance at capturing the other.

Orks fail to Sustain Fire with the Warband (No BMS, reroll still available) and both Zzaps miss the biotitan.

Left hand swarm double moves to fence off the board and get everyone possible in range for an attempted assault on the Gargant (to maybe get BTS).  A warrior takes a shot at the Supastompa mob to put a BM on it.

"Living fence" pic:

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:31 pm 
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Again, note the Nids have every objective captured or contested (well, the Blitz is imminent).  There are no Orks in their half of the board except the broken Blitz Brigade, and are in a position to threaten BTS as well.

The Orks have to take at least one objective, get a formation across midboard, and prevent the Gargant from dying.  Any other result means nids win.  There are effectively 3 activations to use to do all of that.

Ork Warband Sustains fire, killing the biotitan and stopping the impending assault threatening the Gargant/BTS.

The Supastompa moves to assault the swarm in front of it.  This is an uphill assault, but it saves the Orks' game if it works.  The Supastompa can barge far enough to get past the objective (barely) to stop T&H and the consolidation move will just barely get them across the centerline to stop TSNP.  Unfortunately, average results would still result in Nids being +1-2 on the resolution.

In the end, the assault goes badly and the nids prevail, keeping T&H.  By the time the Orks move around the swarm (they were tightly packed enough that the Supastompa couldn't withdraw through them without moving over the models), they couldn't even get across midboard to have another chance at preventing TSNP.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:39 pm 
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The game is effectively over at this point, but we decided to play it out to see just how bad it could get.

Nids move to take Blitz.  One BM is enough to break the Blitz Brigade before it can react.

The Gargant fails to activate and shoots at the Swarm in front of it, trying to blow it off the objective.  No luck.

The LSN on the Nid Blitz uses an out of coherency assault with the Raveners, realizing they would die regardless.  The assault fails but there are not enough hackdowns to reach back to the node.

The Heirodule with the GSN takes a shot at the stompas and gets one hackdown from a BM.

Rally:  The Blitz Brigade fails to rally.  The Nids win 4-0 (T&H, Blitz, TSNP, DTF).

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:47 pm 
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A better tactic for the orks in Turn 4 would have been to move the Gargant over to support before the Supastompa assault.  With the Gargant support, it would have turned the odds to the orks' favor, though it was still not a guarantee (probably +1-2 for the Orks instead of -1-2).  However, with a failed activation, like what really happened, that would have failed as well.

You can see around the Ork Blitz the kind of shielding formation I mentioned as making it impossible to clear Nids off an objective with less than 2 and probably 3 formations.  The warriors are close enough to take the Blitz, but have projected the broods out to max distance.  Even if the Nids lost assault in base contact, the enemy couldn't consolidate close enough to take the Blitz.  The nids would just retreat a bit and still keep the objective.

Also, keep in mind that the perspective in some of the pics makes some of the coherency look weird, expanding the close side of the board.  We were very mindful of it and using everything about the nid swarm rules to its max but all the coherency distances are correct.

Obviously, there were tactical errors on both sides.  Overall, though, there were very few things that might have actually made a difference for the Orks.  We stopped play and discussed possible Ork counter techniques at more than one point.  There's also the fact that the phenomenal crit rolls saved their bacon more than once.

Edit:  Also, I posted the same pic twice.  Sorry.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:55 pm 
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You can see that even firing on fairly tightly packed formations, the -1 to hit for cover (usually only 1/2  to 3/4 were in cover), combined with the Ork's low chance to Sustain and/or need to double move prevented the soopagunz from doing tremendous damage.  Nonetheless, I admit it is possible that they would have whittled down the swarms enough to stop the area domination to the extent it was possible.

The question then becomes whether the damage the Dom and Hydra could have inflicted would have balanced it.  I tend to think that it would.  The biotitans are fast and relatively shooty, making them extremely flexible.  I think the Orks would have needed to do a lot more movement if they were around.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Total casualties:

Orks
===
6 wagonz
4 stompas
2 grots
4 boyz
2 nobz
2 damage on the gargant
Tiebreaker points:  680

Nids
===
Dom
Hydra
4 Lictors
2 Heirodules
4 Raveners
6 Hormagaunts
6 Termagaunts
Raw points:  1575
Tiebreaker points:  1750

Synapse creatures were 9 dead (6 from Dom, 3 from GSN) to 11 on board (6 warriors, 3 from GSN, 2 LSN) so a single dead synapse would have gained BTS for the orks.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:25 pm 
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We don't allow aircraft sniping, so the warriors were inside the formations far enough to be protected in almost all cases.  The main exception was the final extended fence when there weren't enough gaunts to keep a couple back, but by then the damage was done.  Even killing a synapse wouldn't have done anything.

In any case, it's a simple matter to keep a couple gaunts back if there is a real threat.  Counting on the opponent to screw up is not a solid counter strategy.

Barrages don't work for hunting synapse creatures if the Nid player plays correctly.  A small cluster of troops will dictate the placement of the barrage someplace the Warriors are not a viable target, barring lucky shots.

Blitz deployment off to one side creates a situation similar to a corner deployment.  Nids place directly across in response and lump everything they can on that board end.  they can essentially cut the real play surface in about half, which benefits the nids more than any opponent army.  They can also use the board edge to protect one of their flanks, making it that much easier to avoid things like aircraft sniping synapses.

Parts of the hills give cover.  I didn't go into that, as we've worked out what part of the hills does what over many games, but some of the areas with clustered trees are counted as scrub.  Most is open.  One thing that doesn't come out in the pics is the slopes.  The lighting angle doesn't show any shadows you can use to judge.  I think what you are referencing would have been dicey because of LoS issues.

One move on the Gargant would not have been sufficient to support the Supastompa assault.  Hits from support formations still have to be applied to the units that are directly involved, within 15cm of the assaulting formation.  Between buildings blocking LoS to the targets and countercharging units towards the attackers (out of the buildings so as to block LoS with those same buildings) there wouldn't wouldn't have been more than 1-2 valid targets for the Gargant.

The Orks were pinned in because they were spending all possible activations to shoot as much as possible.  They sacrificed movement for firepower.  If they hadn't done so, they would have been facing a more powerful Nid force.  It's a catch-22.

How would you have incorporated more maneuver?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:34 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 07 2007,21:25)
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One move on the Gargant would not have been sufficient to support the Supastompa assault. ?Hits from support formations still have to be applied to the units that are directly involved, within 15cm of the assaulting formation. ?Between buildings blocking LoS to the targets and countercharging units towards the attackers (out of the buildings so as to block LoS with those same buildings) there wouldn't wouldn't have been more than 1-2 valid targets for the Gargant.

I suppose I would've made a "lateral" assault, moving the Supa-Stompa towards the Gargant, to bring all those Brood creatures into "direct engagement" and having the Gargant in support there.  Being a 4DC war engine, the Supa' could have been up to 20cm away from the Stompas which could just move directly into the nearby Broods.

Can't quite make out the distances involved to see what all could have been brought to bear.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] 3000 pts Orks v Nids
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:44 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 07 2007,21:25)
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The Orks were pinned in because they were spending all possible activations to shoot as much as possible. ?They sacrificed movement for firepower. ?If they hadn't done so, they would have been facing a more powerful Nid force. ?It's a catch-22.

With the Boyz and their Grots, I'm surprised the Orks didn't assault more, at least an initial attack or something instead of shooting. ?Being able to negate the first 4 Bug hits and having the chance to outnumber is a good thing and I've seen the resolution devour Nids.

It's probably why I don't put Weirdboyz in my Boyz Mobz, they'z fir choppin' not gunnin'! ?*laugh*

As to shooting, I still think Soopas are the way to go for the most bang for your buck: depending on where the actual Weirdboyz are positioned, a sustained 4BP against the Dom swarm would generate 7 MW3+ attacks, with three going against the Dom automatically (First template on middle Hierodule, 2 hits, 1 hit for each Hierodule beside it, and second template flipped back to hit the Dom for 3 more attacks).




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