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Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:48 pm 
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For zoanthrope how about just 5+ MW, FF5+ MW?  As you say in 40k they can blast through armour nicely (if they hit which is usually the problem...). (BTW remember that the template is blast not ordinance, which makes it unlikely it will kill more than 1-2 models (unless they are clumped due to teleporting or something).)


I'd go with an AP attack at range because the S5 attack is longer-ranged than the S10 attack.

Spores come 2 frag, 2 acid, 2 toxin to a pack...

Not if you know which pack to purchase...

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:25 pm 
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I think those are both pretty good ideas, but standardize the ranges.

I like the MWFF5+, 30cm AP4+ for the Zoa.

The trick with the spores will be balancing them because they're just a bit weird.

How would you handle unit type and movement?  Should AT fire be able to set off the chain reaction (so they are LVs)?  Dangerous terrain?  LoS issues?  Surely the idea of cover mods and terrain saves for balloons high enough to foul aircraft is odd?

In short, it seems you're still into special rules unless you want your balloons taking cover behind buildings.

===

At 5cm move, they would always move cautiously, so I suppose dangerous terrain is not a big deal.  After all, it's always possible that the tails would get fouled in tree branches or on building spires and such.  A 1/36 chance of them being rendered ineffective doesn't seem unreasonable.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:32 pm 
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I think those are both pretty good ideas, but standardize the ranges.

I like the MWFF5+, 30cm AP4+ for the Zoa.


Seems perfect to me.

The trick with the spores will be balancing them because they're just a bit weird.

How would you handle unit type and movement?  Should AT fire be able to set off the chain reaction (so they are LVs)?  Dangerous terrain?  LoS issues?  Surely the idea of cover mods and terrain saves for balloons high enough to foul aircraft is odd?

In short, it seems you're still into special rules unless you want your balloons taking cover behind buildings.

I'd make them LV's.

As the LOS issues, I hadn't thought of that.

I can't see a way around it without a 'note'.

However, it would just be one note, rather than the whole bunch of special rules that the DTT-type Spores entail.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:40 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 30 2007,14:32)
QUOTE
As the LOS issues, I hadn't thought of that.

Well, the "Support Craft" rule would seem to be appropriate in this case... *laugh*  If only it was a "general" rule.

And I do like the way the Zoanthrope discussion is going.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:48 pm 
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(Chroma @ Mar. 30 2007,14:40)
QUOTE

(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 30 2007,14:32)
QUOTE
As the LOS issues, I hadn't thought of that.

Well, the "Support Craft" rule would seem to be appropriate in this case... *laugh*  If only it was a "general" rule.

And I do like the way the Zoanthrope discussion is going.

I 100% agree with that.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Ok will test these on Sunday, hurray up and sort the spores out by then, and remember I'm 12 hours ahead of you guys... :)

Re Spores - hey you can't even buy mixed packs anymore!! :O

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:08 pm 
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Wouldn't spore mines have a pretty good CC as well?  After all, they are intended to spew caustic material over a huge area when they die/explode.  Hacking them with chainswords would seem to be an extraordinarily dangerous activity...

===

LV, 5cm, 5+ (due to size?), 4+, 6+
15cm AA6+
Small Arms Ignore Cover
Notes:  Always has LoS to everything on the board and vice versa

Independent Brood, 6 for 125?
(fairly expensive for what they do but still a very cheap activation)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:17 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Mar. 30 2007,14:08)
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Hacking them with chainswords would seem to be an extraordinarily dangerous activity...

Lol, good point.

Only concern with that LOS thing and those stats is that those sure are easy targets...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Aye, CC 4+ seems sensible, as does armour save 5+.

In other words, I agree. :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:29 pm 
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(Markconz @ Mar. 30 2007,15:17)
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Only concern with that LOS thing and those stats is that those sure are easy targets...

That's the thing, they *are* easy targets... and they tend to chain react when heavily targeted.

And if an opponent is wasting activations to take them out, well, then other stuff isn't getting shot at.  *laugh*

I'm still not 100% convinced to this approach, but I would like to see some playtesting of it.

And, if not "Support Craft", shouldn't they be skimmer?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:30 pm 
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(Markconz @ Mar. 30 2007,15:17)
QUOTE
Only concern with that LOS thing and those stats is that those sure are easy targets...

With 6 of them, I'd guess the normal distribution would be something like:

--*-5cm-*-5cm-*--
~4cm gap
------*5cm-*-5cm-*

Staggered and spread, that covers an area roughly 45x35cm.  At 3 casualties, it's still 40x25cm.  It takes reducing them below 3 units to significantly impact their coverage, which is modest to begin with.  With a 5+ save, that means 4-5 hits.

Why would most people bother?  The payoff on firing at them is not good.  The only way to really sweep them off the board would be assaults.

I think the biggest problem would be striking a balance between cheap activations and their modest coverage area.

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maruma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:24 pm 
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I love ideas of spores as AA units (like I said here),
so I'll test play it if balanced data born from this topic.


About  the Zoanthrope...

I have no idea how powerful their attacks should be.
But anyone have an opinion about they may be Synapse Creature in 40k game?
Synapse Zoans are sometimes important in 40k.
I imagine it may be characterize them in epic.
(For example, zoans counts as synapse creatures when measuring 15cm synapse range only, no respawn ability etc?)

Oh but it needs new special rule... may be bad idea :confuse:
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