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3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
Chroma
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:28 pm 
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(Charad @ Mar. 04 2007,13:22)
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Adding spawning to 2 helps a little, but still it sounds so good to be nid AA. But I have to test it sometime and then I can comment better. This nid AA issue is hard to solve, and what happens to zoanthrope then...

If you look at the Gargoyle AA proposal, Zoanthropes are updated as part of that.

I think these "Swarm of Gargoyles" thought experiments are overstating their direct effectiveness; it *appears* scary, but if you crunch number, it's not that effectives, it acts more like a deterrent, which I like,  and it's *very* points intensive and Gargoyles die... like flies.




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Charad
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:48 pm 
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I think zoanthropes are too weak with those stats, and no-one uses them then. I think they deserve macro shooting attack and macro firefight... But one thing at a time...

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:01 pm 
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IS this only me or is it really that a great percentage of bio-titans die rather because of a criticsal hit and not because they where reduced to DC0?

How about changing the criticalto "The Bio-titans main bloodvessels are ruptured and it suffers an extra D6 DC"?

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Chroma
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:02 pm 
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(Charad @ Mar. 04 2007,13:48)
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I think zoanthropes are too weak with those stats, and no-one uses them then. I think they deserve macro shooting attack and macro firefight... But one thing at a time...

Wow, I love Zoanthropes! ?They actually have a great shooting attack for Tyranids.  I like to put them in mobile "shooting swarms".

Clusters of them garrisoned and on overwatch are great. ?Even if not garrisoned, a swarm packing them get hit stuff on a 5+ when doubling, I like that a lot!




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Chroma
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:04 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Mar. 04 2007,15:01)
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IS this only me or is it really that a great percentage of bio-titans die rather because of a criticsal hit and not because they where reduced to DC0?

Unfortunately I think that's just observationaly bias: the "significant' event of that horrible critical stand out more in the mind than all the times the Bio-Titans get hit and don't die.

In my experience most Bio-Titans actually die due to hack-down hits (since the Hierophant is more commonly deployed than the Hydraphant).

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Ilushia
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Well, statistically a 6 DC war-engine should see 1 critical before it dies. That's not always true, but that's the average. If 1/6 criticals also causes death, then you've got, on average, a 1/6 chance to instant kill one instead of reducing it to 0 DC during a game. (Well slightly worse then that, since sometimes you'll roll an instant-death when it hits 0 DC). Similarly even if you don't actually have the titan instant-death you'll still at least take another point of damage off the critical.

I've been thinking about the critical effects. Maybe something like 1-2: The Bio-Titan's regenerative abilities heal the wound over, no additional effect. 3-5: The bio-titan suffers an additional DC of damage. 6: Hit a soft spot and killed the bio-titan instantly.

For heirophants and hydraphants this seems like a good plan to me. And brings their criticals into line with the style of crits in the core rules, where sometimes they'll do nothing and sometimes they'll instantly destroy your Warlord. Infact, they're actually less nasty then those for Imperial titans since they never risk hanging around and doing damage over several rounds. But they also have a higher chance of being critted, as they have no shields to begin with.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:55 pm 
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(Charad @ Mar. 04 2007,13:48)
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I think zoanthropes are too weak with those stats, and no-one uses them then. I think they deserve macro shooting attack and macro firefight... But one thing at a time...

I agree.


One thing worth pointing out is that Zoanthropes are pretty short ranged in 40k (24" maximum IIRC), they have the same range and similar stats as a Multimelta (There are some strength differences depending on range, but on balance they're pretty close).

If / When Zoanthropes are redone I'd go with something like:

- Zoanthrope Warp Blast MW5+, range 15cm.
while it's Firefight attack would also be MW status.

This would give the 'nids an analogue to Marine Librarians (For the most part best used in a supporting fire role than in the primary engagement).


Obviously this'd only work if we go with Meotic Spores.




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Markconz
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:25 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 04 2007,18:55)
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Obviously this'd only work if we go with Meotic Spores.

Or gargoyles...  :;):

More thought on zoanthropes is need though. They could probably do with being MW, especially at 50 points. Inspiring is another option which would provide an effect similar to previous epic rules, and current 40k options ('the horror' psychic power).

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:20 am 
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I tend to agree with the MW attack idea. Given they are a psychic being they should be similar to Librarians - who actually get a MW attack.

On the range though how do 40K ranges equate to Epic? Is 24" considered 15cm?
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Chroma
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:33 am 
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(Markconz @ Mar. 04 2007,20:25)
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Inspiring is another option which would provide an effect similar to previous epic rules, and current 40k options ('the horror' psychic power).

I would work to minimize the amount of inspiring units in the Tyranid army to as few as possible as, with Unstoppable, the 'Nids don't need any more assault boosts.

Personally, I think the Bio-Titans and such *should* be "terrifying (inspiring)" but I don't think it can be balanced and is pretty unworkable in game.

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Markconz
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:51 am 
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(Dobbsy @ Mar. 05 2007,01:20)
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I tend to agree with the MW attack idea. Given they are a psychic being they should be similar to Librarians - who actually get a MW attack.

On the range though how do 40K ranges equate to Epic? Is 24" considered 15cm?

Generally yes.

So 15cm MW attack for Thrope could be appropriate (same as Landspeeder).

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Markconz
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:52 am 
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(Chroma @ Mar. 05 2007,01:33)
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(Markconz @ Mar. 04 2007,20:25)
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Inspiring is another option which would provide an effect similar to previous epic rules, and current 40k options ('the horror' psychic power).

I would work to minimize the amount of inspiring units in the Tyranid army to as few as possible as, with Unstoppable, the 'Nids don't need any more assault boosts.

Personally, I think the Bio-Titans and such *should* be "terrifying (inspiring)" but I don't think it can be balanced and is pretty unworkable in game.

Fair enough.  :)

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:06 am 
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Yeah I agree, inspiring(terrifying) while being sort of fluffy just starts to push the army into the OTT category.
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Lightbringer
 Post subject: 3K Batrep: 7.3 Tyranid VS 1.1 Guard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Great Batrep

So in terms of development for the list

1. Trygons - you loved them at 25cm no infiltrate.

2. Gargoyle AA - not used

3. Dominatrix - fine apart from critical effect

4. Hierophant - as Dominatrix.

Chroma - as the new boss could you let me know which version of the Trygon you would like to see tested. This version or another?

The bio-titan criticals probably do need a little tweak and I would like something like the Ilushia option, keeping the instant kill effect but giving a chance of the critical doing nothing too.

1-2: The Bio-Titan's regenerative abilities heal the wound over, no additional effect. 3-5: The bio-titan suffers an additional DC of damage. 6: Hit a soft spot and killed the bio-titan instantly.

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