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Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
Ilushia
 Post subject: Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:04 pm 
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For further elaboration on 'Daemon Princes' the original fluff material for them also makes them HUMONGOUS and extremely powerful. There are 'Daemon Prince' infantry units in the older editions of Epic as well which are frighteningly good in close-combat and often times had some wicky ranged powers too. They were, if anything, even MORE scary in 2nd edition 40K as well (The Daemon Princes were utterly rediculous there. Doombreed the Khornate daemon-prince was easily the equal or better of a Bloodthirster, and much the same for the others). I do agree it'd be more appropriate for them to be independent small War Engines. WE with DC 3 or so, keep the other stats the same, and they'd fit quite well. I think the major reason they're infantry and not something else is because they can only be fielded in infantry formations, at present, so making them vehicles or WEs would make them unfairly easy to kill when embeded.
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tneva82
 Post subject: Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:12 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Aug. 17 2006,22:43)
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Carnifexs are just as feared by tank crews as daemon princes.  Okay a daemon prince can fly, but a fex can rip apart a tank for only 114pts.  Go all the way and splash out 260pts+ on a fex and it can take out warhounds with easy (upto 10 attacks with 10+2D6 armour pen).

Also fex can have bio plasma.  A CC attack that always hits on 4+, even against skimmers and the such like which the DP would need a 6 to hit.

Maybe it is time to start asking for fex to have TK(1) attacks, now where is Jaldon for me to nag  :p

However 40k daemon princes are pale comparisons to real daemon princes as described in the fluff...Those eat carnifexes for lunch.

Of course they aren't exactly most common creatures around  :laugh:

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:30 pm 
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(tneva82 @ Aug. 18 2006,13:12)
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(ragnarok @ Aug. 17 2006,22:43)
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Carnifexs are just as feared by tank crews as daemon princes. ?Okay a daemon prince can fly, but a fex can rip apart a tank for only 114pts. ?Go all the way and splash out 260pts+ on a fex and it can take out warhounds with easy (upto 10 attacks with 10+2D6 armour pen).

Also fex can have bio plasma. ?A CC attack that always hits on 4+, even against skimmers and the such like which the DP would need a 6 to hit.

Maybe it is time to start asking for fex to have TK(1) attacks, now where is Jaldon for me to nag ?:p

However 40k daemon princes are pale comparisons to real daemon princes as described in the fluff...Those eat carnifexes for lunch.

Of course they aren't exactly most common creatures around ?:laugh:

tneva has it right.

Much as I love my carnis - they are just tyranid tanks.

Daemon Princes in the fluff are supposed to be demi-gods, not the pitiful things they are in 40k. Epic better allows a representation of their true power without ruining the game play.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:50 pm 
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I agree that an epic scale DP should be able to eat a carnifex for breakfast (though its dozen or so brood mates might have something to say about it), but they should be huge hulking WE daemons.  Not something that can be hidden behind a load of expendiable marines.

If they want to be inf size they should lose power, but I surpose it is too late to alter the black legion list to have two sizes of DP.  Infantry and WE

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:38 pm 
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I'd like to see Daemon Princes as an independent unit... But how do you make them durrable enough to make it worth it? They'd need to be like Greater Daemons, 150-200 points, tops, since they're worthless out of assault, DC 3 with lots of armor. Basically you stay the heck away from them or die.

As for them in 40K: It's not hard at all to get them to consistently have 7+ attacks every turn at S9 WS6, comparatively a Carnifex at S10, 4 attacks, WS3 is not that impressive. But in either case, I'm in favor of keeping them in Epic with the same power, dunno about the  whole 'infantry' bit being bad, though it certainly feels odd especially given how big the old ones are.
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tneva82
 Post subject: Batrep: Tyranid vs Black Legion, 3k (ropecon #3)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:46 pm 
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(Hena @ Aug. 18 2006,14:33)
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If that's true, then why are they infantry? Other than every TK weapon can then drop them (but IMO that's the point of the said weapons). Not like I'd argue that Harridan needs to be infantry.

Ask Pixelgeek. If I would have designed them I would have made them DC3(or even 4 to ensure single volcano cannon won't easily kill it) WE. Possibly with some sort of improved invulnerable save to boot. Price tag to match of course. Heck we are talking about creatures that will give good run for their money for company of Ordo Malleus grey knights, THE ultimate daemon hunters Imperium has to offer. So I have no quarrels with their TK attacks. Infantry status is bigger quirk for me. Just doesn't make sense.

IMO pixelgeek went for bit of odd mix of fluff and 40k. But each to his own.




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