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Synapse Coherency Repair Thread
Chroma	Post subject: Synapse Coherency Repair Thread Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 6:24 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (Hena @ 05 May 2006 (18:22)) I'm don't understand the reason for not changing the swarm. If the rule is based on the fact that the brood will continue charging after the enemy as the synapse is not there. Then why does this happen when there infact is synapse? It does not make any sense. I think the main reason is to prevent any kind of "leap-frogging", such as: "I'll use these Raveners to engage here... then move them to this other Swarm and engage again..." _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Tactica	Post subject: Synapse Coherency Repair Thread Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 6:34 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Hena, Its all hypothetical and is fiction. Its really down to Jaldon's vision... + + + That said, you can justify anything. First, there's 1.40 which establishes SWARM is determined at the beginning of a turn. Don't leave your swarm coherency. Exception is that: if you want to leave it - here's a very special circumstance, but you better get back in coherency within the parameters given - lest you run off into no mans land. Third, this is representative of lots of stuff happening simultaneously. Thus - a snapshot (beginning of turn) is used to determine Swarms. Everything in the course of a turn must remain within a given Synapse's control to reflect the relative influences of actions for that slice of time - i.e. turn. So the easiest thing to do is to say - you can't leave synapse control - period within a turn. The exception shouldn't necessarily afford further exceptions lest you create a chain of exceptions from within the rules. In Jaldon's defense, what he's afforded the tyranid player is a manner in which bugs become fluid but only determined from a specific point in time - beginning of turn. He then affords an exception for tactical flexability. He puts constraints on that exception by forcing the player to get back into Swarm formation lest there be a penalty for not doing so. Perhaps this is a mechanism to keep the player from blindly over extending himself. Thus the exception must be used wisely. If he was to further offer another exeception for a bug player to use another synapse groups control, he's essentially eleviating the penalty for over extending. + + + If you are looking for just a fluff reason to make 'fictional' sense of it all... What if the 'fleeing' enemy (that the 'rogue bug' is chasing off) sees a really large bug formation "over there" and decides that he's not going to run that way into more danger... instead, he runs off into the wild blue horizon... and so followed the mindless bugs whom which have lost synapse control as they follow in pursuit. Thus, Jaldon says - this is "represented" by bugs that don't get back into coherency with the originating Swarm's Synapse Coherency. Very justifiable and reasonable to me - *if* that's his vision. Cheers, _________________ Rob
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Tactica	Post subject: Synapse Coherency Repair Thread Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 11:10 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	And simple brood creatures such as myself will follow (almost) mindlessly where the magus will lead LOL, well, I'm sure Jaldon will shed some light on the path ahead soon enough. Cheers, _________________ Rob

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Jaldon

Post subject: Synapse Coherency Repair Thread Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 3:13 am

Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.

"The mind is like a mirror that reflects all that it experiences and collects it for the one whom holds it." Reply "You cannot hold onto anything. You don't experience things, things happen. The mind isn't a mirror that reflects anything. And the only thing a mirror collects is dust." LOL, well, I'm sure Jaldon will shed some light on the path ahead soon enough. Reply "You can't have some light, it is either present or not. You can't shed light, you either have it or you don't. Nothing can ever happen soon, it always happens exactly when it happens. And there is no path ahead only a big sign that says YOU ARE HERE."     But seriously......................... Here is a re-write of what you wrote Tactica. (1)The only exception to this is when a swarm is carrying out an Engage Action.(1) (2) During the Engage Action all of a swarm's brood creature units can move out of both synapse coherency and normal coherency of the swarm's synapse creature group, however these same brood creature units must maintain coherency with each other,(2) (3)and all of the brood creature units from the swarm must be committed to the Engage Action.(3) (4) At the end of the Engage Action, both the synapse creature group controlling the swarm and any remaining brood creature units from the swarm must attempt to get back into normal coherency if the combat was a Tyranid victory.(4) (5) Alternatively, both the synapse creature group controlling the swarm and any remaining brood creature units from the swarm may withdraw as normal if the combat was a Tyranid loss, again returning to normal coherency with each other during that withdrawl.(5) (6)After any consolidation or withdrawal moves have been made, any brood creature units from the swarm that still remain outside of synapse coherency, of any synapse creature(s) from the swarm, they are removed from the table. It's assumed they have pursued fleeing enemy survivors so far away as to be well beyond the hive minds control for th etime being.(6)

(1) It clearly states that the only exception to this rule is an Engage Action.

(2) That, for this action, the swarm can be temporarily split into two distinct groupings, one containing the Swarm's Brood Creatures, and one containing the Swarm's Synapse Creatures.

(3) And that all of the Swarm's Brood Creatures must be comitted to the assault, some of them MAY NOT stay behind with the Swarm's Synapse Creatures.

(4) That these two seperate groups must attempt to get back into coherency with each other by the end of the Engage Action.

(5) The same as 4 if they lose the assault, but again only with each other.

(6) That, after a consolidation/withdrawl move if any brood creatures that remain out of synapse range of any synapse creatures from the swarm they are part of then they are removed from the table.

This removal isn't occurring because they are out of anybody's synapse range, it is occurring for a different reason, and that reason is given. It is explained that way so players would realize that true synapse control had nothing to do with that removal. Consider it a feeding frenzie thing and other synapse control spheres have nothing to do with it.

I prefer to change the engage back to old way (synapse range can be broken, coherency cannot). And consider the nodes as a separate problem. Or then allow other synapses to save the critters. But it's Jaldons call as always.


This is how this whole mess got started, trying to make exceptions for the Nodes. I am not treading down that path again, the rule either covers the entire army, or we don't use it.

Also allowing other synapse to 'save the critters' is just asking for a whole host of problems with players 'splitting off' brood creatures to be scooped up by another swarm. This would then be quickly followed by the question can I activate them 'again' as they are now part of the new swarm, right? I do not want splitting, or hand offs, etc...

I want both the Nodes and the Swarms to be able to send their brood creatures out of Synapse Coherency/Normal Coherency of their controlling Synapse Creatures during an Engage Action.

This is only so the Nodes can send off 'suicide' assaults, and so the Swarm's brood creatures to fully exploit their infiltrate double move.

I find that this kind of attack would fit into the Nid Background.

The reason for the heavy penalty for not being able to return to coherency is to prevent players attempting to exploit the rule, and to make them think hard about it's possible use.

In practice, and we have used it this way, Swarms can send their infiltrators deeper into the enemy formation, Hormagaunts mostly, but most of the rest of the swarm's brood creatures are place where they can easily get back into coherency in a consolidation move. As most of the  hits that will be scored in the assault will fall on the extended Hormagaunts they being out of returning to coherency becomes almost moot.

Again, in practice, the Nodes become mostly reserve spawning points used by swarms to gather up extra bugs, and using this rule they are forced to operate closer to the front. Once the battle lines move well out of the Nodes area it becomes useless to the army. So place them well. They have also been used as deep strikes that once placed each turn send off suicide bugs to wear the enemy down from behind.

Now if it continues to cause problems like formation splitting, etc. instead of creating its intended goal of allowing the nodes/swarms a bit more flexibility then it would be better to just scrap the entire idea and force the Nids to stay under strict synapse and normal coherency.

Yes this is an exception to the normal rules, it even says so at the start of the paragraph, but it has very narrow criterion for its use so that players don't start using their imaginations to start including it to do a whole host of things it was never intended for. Again, if I cannot get it to fit and stay within this very narrow band of criterion it would be better to scrap the entire idea.

Thanks All...................

Jaldon