BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k |
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tneva82
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k  Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:25 pm |
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| Quote (Hena @ 03 Mar. 2006 (21:01)) | - Engage. I feel that Tyranid should be allowed to engage in hold, perhaps with a -1 modifier or something. Or give +1 to engage activation. I don't know. But it's driving me crazy to get my swarm prepared for assault and lose everything as I fail the activation. It would be very good for Tyranids though so I dunno. Opinions please  ? |
Disagree on need to help. You already have ability to ignore -1 for initiave test for having BM's. So you are already more dependable than say IG. How much more than that is needed?
- We discussed a bit about the cost of bio titans. They can soak up the AT fire quite well, but TK are killers to them. As they cannot use a activation to regenerate they cannot react to damage either. And they only have the breath weapon (and warp blast with Hydraphant) as ranged weapons. While they do have 2 TK(d3) close combat weapons their FF and CC is 4+. I still think that they are a bit too expensive. |
Here I agree though. Tyranid bio titans didn't impress me when I met them and though regeneration is good it's not THAT good. Top of that those have no real ranged ability and CC titans(or similar units) aren't best in world. Bit more extra protection(extra DC) or lowering price might be in order.
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asaura
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:17 pm |
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| Quote (lilith @ 04 Mar. 2006 (09:44)) | | For the bio titan Tk is dreadfull but regeneration is very usefull.Maybe if we raise up the Dc by one or 2 with the same price the huge beasts become more resilent from Tk |
If we up the DC, it will certainly help against TK weapons, but it will help even more against MW and AT weapons. The stats seem fine.
I agree with Hena on this one. If there's a problem with the Bio-titans, it's not that they aren't tough enough.
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tneva82
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:15 pm |
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| Quote (Hena @ 04 Mar. 2006 (20:40)) | But I do wonder if that would make the Tyranids too good. And I'm concerned about it. It's just so frustrating to see the engage fail on activation  (as happened in Crisis situation in this battle). |
Gut instincts tell they would. Tyranids are so nasty in assault that quite frankly I doubt -1 modifier for CC/FF would make much of a impact. +2 from BM, +1/+2 from outnumber and casualties inflicted by sheer number of dices ensure tyranids would be winning most of assaults anyway._________________ www.tneva.net
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Squared
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:07 am |
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Something more along the lines of may not move but may initiate an assault if already in close enough to the target. The Tyranids suffer a -1 to their FF/CC roles for the duration of this assault.
This would replace the hold action but follows a similar mechanic as the hold action. This would have two huge balancing factors, the first being the reduction in FF/CC the other being that the assault would have to be set up in the previous turn and the enemy would have to not move for what ever reason, hard to imagine with the Nids SR. It does seem more Niddy though.
^2
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tneva82
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:16 am |
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| Quote (Hena @ 04 Mar. 2006 (22:14)) | | I was thinking a to-hit kind of modifier. Eg. CC4+ -> CC5+ and FF5+ -> FF6+. |
I understood what you meant but I still doubt that would make much of a impact. Tyranids swarms are so big they are bound to cause some casualties anyway and with so many static CR modifiers could atleast break formations with ease.
It also would create something unique so far. Assault value modifiers. ATM there's nothing in the game that modifies them midgame(or is some playtest list having such things?)._________________ www.tneva.net
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tneva82
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am |
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| Quote (Hena @ 05 Mar. 2006 (09:44)) | | I haven't seen any such rules. As for effect, I think it would have a lot of effect. As most FF rolls are 5+ that would mean that half of them would miss with 6+. But the problem is that we have almost too many special rules for Tyranid as is. I probably have to live with my very unfornunate ability to roll 1s' for activation . |
Yes 5+->6+ would halve the hits but you would still cause lots of hits with sheer numbers(hey I keep doing that with orks. How could you not with bugs ). Maybe result would be that instead of total annihilation some of enemies might escape instead of being wiped out but with hefty combat modifiers tyranids get winning would not be compromised that often.
And, for most armies, losing assault is bad in itself(even with just by 1) as it means formation can't act untill it rallies(and with -2/-3 that's no easy feat)._________________ www.tneva.net
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asaura
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:23 pm |
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Getting to assault at all on Hold would be very powerful. It would make retaining the initiative to assault a pretty safe bet for the 'nids. Tneva already pointed out the big factors: the -1 doesn't matter all that much, since the resolution deck is stacked for the Tyranids anyway: +2 for blast markers, +1-+2 for outnumbering...
What about supporting fire? Would that incur the -1 penalty as well?
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tneva82
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:31 pm |
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| Quote (Hena @ 05 Mar. 2006 (17:18)) | | Never though if supporting fire as I have used it perhaps twice or so . |
One day try playing eldar and you'll be using supporting fire a LOT more . Though I'm suprised you haven't used it all that much. Ability to lend fire to multiple assaults from single formation can be sooooo usefull. I use it with my orks, IG, SM and especially with eldar. Guess tyranids are different breed(quite literally)._________________ www.tneva.net
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Jaldon
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Post subject: BatRep: Tyranid vs Tau, 3k Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:30 pm |
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Lots been going on since I last posted and digested the batrep.
Nice Pics and Nice report, thank you.
To Nip Things In The Bud.................... 
No, a new special rule will not be written to 'solve' the Nid initiative weakness, it stands as is. IMHO the ability to ignore BMs and spawn makes the Nid army powerful enough, and more then makes up for failed inititive tests.
That said an inititive failure still allows the Nids to move, marshal (spawn in this case), or fire (what little they may have).
Also, the failed initiative test problem makes it less desireable for a Nid player to field scads of formations/activations as it increases the odds of failures occurring.
Last it makes it less likely that a Nid player will try to use retains, thus fitting well into the Nid lack of battlefield flexibility, and making them slower to react.
Sorry, but I believe strongly that an army must have weaknesses to work around, and it is a bad thing IMHO to find ways to solve them with rules. I would prefer players find ways to work around them on the battlefield, the results of doing the reverse has led to 'bad' rules like Eldar Spirit Stones.
Yes, Hena Supporting Fire is a great thing, the intention of the two unit Tyranid Warrior and single unit Hive Tyrant is so the Nid player can form smaller sized Support Formations (Also allowing the Nid player to form Bigger Synapse Groups if they choose to do so).
These handy mid-range formations allow the Nids to move those FF units into range to add supporting fires.
The same applies to the Nid Bio-Titans they are best used to provide support FF fires to other Nid formations launching assaults. One popular use here for the Hierophant and Hydraphant is to shove them within 15cms of two enemy formations and then launch assaults with other formations on those enemy formations. Then the Bio-Titans get their own short ranged attacks and then get to add further FF shots, in effective almost tripling their firepower 
I really liked the Tau players remark about his attempt at AA supression by gunning down the Zoanthropes only to find them spawned right back 
From reading the report the Tau player had a definite uncharateristic 'lack' of coordinated fire, gotta work on that 
It didn't seem like the Tau player attempted to mass firepower in any one place to break down the nid army preferring to attempt across the line withering fire. Or am I seeing/reading this wrong?
Thanks all for the thoughts, and a Big Thanks for the report.
Jaldon
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Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
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