Nid v6.22 List |
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Chroma
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List  Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:58 am |
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
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| Quote (Jaldon @ 16 Feb. 2006 (03:08)) | Me bad was still thinking like the Lesser Node was still a WE.  |
Actually, being a WE is irrelevant. The "0cm move" takes precedent. Each of the "conditions" under the rules for garrisoning allows a unit to garrison, ie, even a "Greater" Node can garrison... it's been this way since the beginning of the Tyranid list...
Heck, it's basically what I always do with Lesser Nodes.
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KiLLerLooP
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:15 am |
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Location: Germany
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Hi folks,
I really like how the Tyra list is evolving. Many thanks to all contributing here!
I had my game against Morg (BA) last week (he wrote the Batrep) and will have a 3K battle against him next week. (just painting up more gaunts atm)
Anyways I just wanted to address another thing with the harridan:
I too have seen the typo with the DC-2 critical hit. Changing that to DC-3 would be a good option imho.
Another thing with the harridan is acting as a transport for gargoyles. I tried that in my last game but am not that satisfied of it because it gives no real benefit. I would have liked the harridan able to transport an entire formation.
Like all other transport WE's in other armies do (e.g. thunderhawk)
No I have to embark/disembark the gargoyles all time and they have to stick with the harridan.
Is there any hope that this will be changed? Fluffwise I cant imagine a harridan dropping GG and embark them again afterwards.
What about the VT? Could you buy a VT unit as a Synapse and transport another swarm then, which could act indepentendly?
As it says the VT can transport HT/TW...
Could that transport issues pls described a bit more detailled in the list? Or perhaps I am to dumb to understand it 
Is there any chance that the number of Lictor formations will increase? I like the limitation as they are a tough elite unit but I and others I know of have so muche spare Lictors left :sigh (I should have mounted two on a base)
Another thing: I did like the look of the 5.4B list as it contained lots of graphical elements and more resembled an official list. And it had a great unit summary on the last page. Is it likely that the actual list will be improved in its look?
Perhaps anybody here is skilled enough to do that?
I really like the tyra list and how their behaviour distiguishes from the other armies.
Can't wait for my next game. Great job you did there!
Cheers!
_________________ Webmaster of www.epic-battles.de-------------------------- Epic Section on my HP
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:23 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England
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Everyone else seems to of caught the typos I found.
However I'm beginning to worry about the lacking in AA cover the nids has. Whilst it is true that a swarm will suffer when attacked by air power, the enemies air power will have even more problems. In the subdual phase the p[lanet it already being changed by the micro-spores dropped in the seeding phase. Huge tropical style storms will be covering the planet, the clouds themselves will be full of gargoyles and sporemines. Runways will find themselves clogged with rapidly growing planets. In all it would be almost impossible to organise meaningful airpower.
Now we can't bring in such a blanket ruling, but the nids air defense should be more powerful.
Other than that (and what everyone else has said) things are looking better.
I like the new critical hit tables (still don't love them but they are much better than the original drafts)
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semajnollissor
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:54 pm |
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Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA
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| Quote (ragnarok @ 16 Feb. 2006 (03:23)) | However I'm beginning to worry about the lacking in AA cover the nids has. ... ?In all it would be almost impossible to organise meaningful airpower.
Now we can't bring in such a blanket ruling, but the nids air defense should be more powerful. |
Well, if it's the way you want to go, you could say that enemy aircraft always count as leaving from a unfriendly edge in the disengage move. You could explain it in a different way, but the end result would be that enemy A/C would wind up with an extra BM at the end of the turn.
However, why not include some of those nid barrage balloons. If you make them "single shot" weapons somehow attached to synapse creatures as an upgrade, it would be unique and feel some what nid-like, it wouldn't be to hard to keep track of them. Heck, they wouldn't ever need to be modeled (though using 40k spore mines as counters seems obvious).
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lackofbrain
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:10 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:18 pm
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Why not make them an uncommon brood creature rather than a synapse upgrade?
Suggested stats, just off the top of my head:
Type Move Armour CC FF
L/V 15cm 6+ - -
Weapons Range attack Special
Spore baloon 15cm AA6+ Single shot
Special rules:
Brood(1); skimmer; when it uses its spore baloon attack it is destroyed its self whether the attack is sucessful or not
OR: another way as independant creatures, probably with a similar numbers restriction to Lictors
Type Move Armour CC FF
L/V 15cm 6+ - 6+
Weapons Range attack Special
Spore baloon 15cm AA5+ Single shot
Spore clouds (small arms)
Special rules:
Independant; scout; skimmer; when it uses its spore baloon attack it is destroyed its self whether the attack is sucessful or not
I have suggested making hem L/V because i see one base representing a "few", any one of which would not be dangerous enough to bring down an air craft, but when they all detonate at once and fill the jet intakes with spores... I can also see arguments for making them either infantry (if there are a few small soft ones) or AV (if there is one big hard one) for gameplay reasons, and to avoid "shielding" synapse
I can see either of them being worth about 15 points, The former because it can be respawned, the latter because its a scout and thus useful even if there are no air craft about
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semajnollissor
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:18 pm |
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Well, I suggested them as "weapon" upgrades for a couple reasons. One, so that they couldn't be shot at by ground troops (if they are high enough to hurt A/C, they shouldn't be vulerable to normal ground fire. Two, by being single shot weapons, you don't need a rule stating that they die when they fire/hit/whatever.
However, it would be interesting if they were some form of brood creature, so that spawning them could represent some synapse creature "willing" a few randomly floating sacks to head over to protect a given swarm. Still, treating them as weapons system would require fewer special rules.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:30 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Harridans will likely not have the ability to transport anything except Gargoyles because that's all they can do in 40K.
Vituperators, as noted, can carry other synpase creatures, so one could carry an 8-unit swarm by the WE transport rules. However, nothing is to stop you from having the Vituperator lead a swarm and at the beginning of the next turn, handing off part of "its" swarm to the disembarked synapse creature.
For example, you could carry 3 Nid warriors and 5 Raveners. The Vituperator could have 10 gargoyles. First turn, march behind a big terrain piece and disembark. At the beginning of the next turn, when swarms are designatted, the Gargoyles are given to the Warriors and that swarm of 3 Warriors, 5 Raveners, and 10 Gargoyles can activate and run off. Meanwhile, the Vituperator can sit behind the terrain and Spawn a new set of Gargoyles.
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lackofbrain
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:56 am |
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I've been thinking about the stats I suggested. I don't think they need the special rule about destroying themselves, espeically the brood ones. After all if you want to keep an empty husk around that can do nothing but look scary thats fine - its not as if it'll stop the swarm breaking so easily as we're talking nids here, and it keping a zone of control is not entirely stupid because the enemy are not neccesarily going to be able to tell whether it is an exploded spore baloon or something else entirely just by looking so they are not gonna get too close. Lose the armour on them and they cease to really be useful as a shield either before or after they've gone pop. . If you do want to get rid of them once they have been used so you can respawn then just move them out of synapse range, they got to ground (air?) and can be reused as normal. I like the idea of respawnable kamikazi spore ballons so much in fact that I propose the following more well-rounded stats below, for 20 points, maybe 25:
Type Move Armour CC FF
Inf 15cm - - 6+
Weapons Range attack Special
Spore Baloon 15cm AP6+/AT6+/AA6+ Single shot
AND: (small arms)
Special rules:
Brood(1); skimmer; Note that the small arms attack also counts as using up the single shot Spore Baloon
I know that the ff attack using up the single shot weapon doesn't have a precedent (unless I jut missed it...) and it could be dropped and rationalised as spore clouds or something, but I'd rather not. It doesn't actually add any extra special rules, just uses one in an unusual context, like thudd guns firing indirectly. I made them inf so they are vulnerable to more weapons as I see them as very fragile but coming in large numbers. Maybe AV to represent a little more punch per baloon but smaller numbers might work better. LV provides too many uses for them just to soak up hits for synapse creatures, but is that unreasonable? After all if you have kamikazi spore balloons and yo are a norn queen, do you not want them to go pop rather than your prescious tyranis warriors?
Even if people decide not to include the AA aspects because we want nids vulnerable to AA keep the spore baloon and just rationalise the FF as these being low flying ones. Maybe change it to jump pack rather than skimmer....
Does this even make any sense or am I waffling? I'm too tired for this really at the moment....  (<<
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Jaldon
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:02 am |
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Nids and Aircraft........................
So far in a number of battles the Nid lack of mass AA ability hasn't been a real serious problem. To be sure it has inflicted losses, and it has been a pain, but it also didn't sway the results in any of those battles. I admit this is early on in the testing of this concept.
It has forced Nid players to put their Synapse Creatures in the center of swarms when air is about. This is a good thing as it pushes the Nid player into attacking, and using terrain, to prevent the swarms frontline bugs from being cut down and enemy ground fire reaching the valuable Synapse creatures.
Nid players have increased the number of Zoanthropes purchased to spread the AA they have around the army so that they can put multiple BMs on arriving/withdrawing aircraft. They also do this to increase the coverage because of the short 30cm range. Again I feel this is a good thing.
So for now the lack of AA stands unless the situation proves to be army breaking, which right now it doesn't seem to be.
Though for some reason 'Spore Balloon' does have a certain ring to it 
Harridans.................................
Gargoyles, that's it. It is all they carry. Think of it more as a combat formation designed for FF work, and far less as a WE assault transport. Also just because the Harridan can only carry a small number of Gargoyles, it is a synapse creature and can quickly redeploy, spawn, and then attack adding those nice Bugs it is carrying to the assault. It is one of the things that my friends here at home swayed me about when changing the Gargoyle to FF5+ was suggested here on the forum. Seemed like a real good idea then, so I changed them.
Vit is the WE assault transport for the Nid army, and at only 100pts more then a Harridan, not a bad deal.
One neat trick I saw pulled was an LN teleported and spawned then a Vit swooped in and dropped off more Bugs with an HT, and next turn the HT took all of them over and swept up the opponents flank. It won the battle.
Could that transport issues pls described a bit more detailled in the list? Or perhaps I am to dumb to understand it |
WE transport as per the normal Epic-A rules for WE transports. Or am I missing something that needs to be explained?
Everyone else seems to of caught the typos I found.
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Jaldon looks left and right then ducks for cover
Thanks all
Jaldon
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KiLLerLooP
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:09 am |
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Thanks for discussing my harrdian issues. Will most probably take a Vituperator in my next game and see how this unit performs.
I personally don't like the spore balloon idea.
AA defense atm is not great for the nids, but it represents quite good the ability to sufficiently defend themselves but not be able to eliminate the enemy's air superiority.
_________________ Webmaster of www.epic-battles.de-------------------------- Epic Section on my HP
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Tactica
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Post subject: Nid v6.22 List Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:36 pm |
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| Quote (KiLLerLooP @ 17 Feb. 2006 (03:09)) | Thanks for discussing my harrdian issues. Will most probably take a Vituperator in my next game and see how this unit performs.
I personally don't like the spore balloon idea.
AA defense atm is not great for the nids, but it represents quite good the ability to sufficiently defend themselves but not be able to eliminate the enemy's air superiority. |
I personally don't like the spore balloon idea.
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As an opponent, I don't like the idea of flying through them!!! LOL
On the other hand, it sounds brilliant and something you just know the bugs would attempt.
One wonders what kind of production power it would take in order to dump so many in the air that it would be effective though.
There was a super power in WWII that tried the balloon bombs idea against the US - but the wind currents and environment was so unpredictable that the tactic could not be used successfully with even marginal success.
High flying super sonic aircraft of the future might be able to adequately deal with any 'spore balloons' with relative ease.
Still... I like the idea of a balloon mine field in fluff. 
AA defense atm is not great for the nids,
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Defensively, I would disagree. I think the bugs have some serious defense to bring to the table. They have no AA offense, but defensively, they can not only cover the field with zoanthroapes AA cover, but with the latest version, the Zoa's got even cheaper - and the AA went from 4+ to 5+ - which I applaud Jaldon for - however, the regurgitating nature of the AA and the continual spawning of more where needed is rather daunting to the bugs.
I took the notorious 5 aces Tau AX-1-0 against the bug list at 2700 points when the Zoa's were 4+ - and no matter what I did, those darn AA screens were tough to deal with. No matter what I did, I could not over run and force the WE might of the AX-1-0 down the bug's throat. The AA umbrella that the bugs operated in 'defensively' proved to be VERY valuable in that game. (A game we were intentionally trying to break the bugs with from air power and the mass use of the Tau v4.3.3 AX-1-0 plane). Note - the tau lost 4 of 5 planes in this game.
but it represents quite good the ability to sufficiently defend themselves but not be able to eliminate the enemy's air superiority.
Agreed here. It does represent the tide of shots that are going to be flung up at the enemy aircraft. It does present a solid AA umbrella, and it does give the bugs adequate protection. After all - the flak alone plus the 33% chance for scoring a hit will place the blast markers and keep the opponent from fielding his aircraft every turn if he wants to get in close.
More importantly - the zoanthroape does effectively stop the cheesy / cheating use of aircraft to 'snipe' key models by flying right up next to them and making that unit the closest target. Getting through mass zoathropes to snipe is a difficult road to travel in most games if the bug player is concious of such nefarious 'tactics'.
Cheers,
