Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 3
  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

The Norn Queen's Report
ragnarok
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:33 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
We wont get a new type of RA save, to many special rules.

I'm still in the mind that the carnie should be slightly better but cost more.

Also I really want theFF value.  I've had a 6 strong carnie herd (half vennom half screamer killer) spend two rounds trying to get into BtB in an engagement.

A lack of FF is too big a lose on a move 15 vehichle.

An idea has just struck me.  What about having the carnie as $+Ra, but a light vehicle.  Since massed heavy bolter fire can kill them.

I just dont' like the 3+, Inv.  It gives too low a save against power weapons and multimeltas, weapons they should survive against.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
thurse
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Dundee, Scotland
I all, I'm new to this forum, so here's the first post. I'm not a nid player but I play against them

making the carnifex light vehicle is IMHO an bad solution, as it will enable it to "shield" common brood creatures ( termagants,... ) which are in its swarm.

I completely agree with either :
- 3+ invulnerable save
- 5+ RA
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ayoras
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:44 am
Posts: 52
I'm still in the mind that the carnie should be slightly better but cost more.

I'm still in the mind that the nid army really need a 35pts uncommon brood model. Haruspex costs 50 (and is quite balanced according to other army), what is the need of two other 50pts model, probably less efficient?

A lack of FF is too big a lose on a move 15 vehichle.

OK, so in this case cut the FF would give a 4+ RA?
More seriously, I'm going to give to you a statistic which maybe should surprize you :
If 6 carnifex (so 210pts, it is a mid-cost formation) with a 6+ FF try to made at least one hit (maybe more, but at least one) in a firefigth assault, they only have 66,51% chances to success. It means that there is still 33,48% chances that they not reach to do even one hit, it is a high probability for the cost I find.

The statistics for 6 carnifex FF6+ :

0,334897977 0 hits
0,401877572 1 hits
0,200938786 2 hits
0,053583676 3 hits
0,008037551 4 hits
0,000643004 5 hits
2,14335E-05 6 hits

Well, a 6+ FF won't give a lot of possibilities.
Moreover, I think that carnifex B would still have FF (surely 5+). In fact I think that you can give to carnifex 3+ & IS in armour without change anything else (its venom canon is not macro, the claws of the carnie A are macro). Currently, carnifex B is weak for its price.

_________________


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
The old type 2 had two vennom cannons and +1 FF attacks.  this helped to balance it out against losing the MW attack.

As for 6 carnies hitting on a 6+ being a long shot, I prefer a long shot to being FFed to death without a chance to retaliate.

We already have two indipendant formations (lictors and stelaers) and hormagaunts who can't shoot.  I would like to keep it at that.

Though I would be willing to swap it for 4+RA.

I surpose my complaints might be due to the way I play.  By the looks of most lists, the rest of you mix all the bugs together.

I keep mine in distinct formations.

Infantry (warrior lead common brood creatures with zoanathropes thown into the mix, and maybe some 'vores when I get them)

BBB - The bio blitz brigade, Carnies and tyrnats and maybe some haurspex

Bio artillery - tyrant and exocrines.

Thus my complaint is coming from the fact that my armoured formation crumples like a marine tank.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:11 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
(#1) : [After the following] (ie 5cm for normal units, DCx5cm for WEs) {Change} In addition brood creatures must maintain 15cm coherency distance with synapse creatures from their swarm at the end of any action the formation takes. {Change Done}


I think this is too fiddly.  The intended effect is not going to be readily apparent, and will lead to no end of FAQs.  I would try "ignore when assaulting" language first.  The net effect will be very similar as units not in coherency will go to ground at the beginning of the next turn.

(#2) : Change it to LV, and increase cost to 50pts

(#3) : Otta here, history, gone, phfffffft. Removed from list!


Like the concepts.

(#4) : Change to 3+ Armor or armor 4+ RA, raise cost to 50pts.

I agree with pretty much everything Hena has said.

(#5) : Change speed to 15cm, increase cost to 75pts, Brood (3)
: Add Big Claw MW +1 attack, increase cost to 75pts, Brood (3)

Definitely tacked on and unsatisfying.

I don't think there is a prayer that the Dactylis/Dacto-Exocrine is going to make it into the list.  There is very little chance of a new model and the old one is roundly despised by the powers that be.

However, IF you are going to include stats for the different models, te Exocrine has that huge, triceratops-like bony plate to protect it.  It seems to me the thing to add to the Exocrine is an armor increase to reflect that.

(#7) : Drop it down to 25pts

Excuse: I feel that it is overpriced at 35pts, and feel that dropping it to 25pts will make it even more attractive a a direct Swarm support weapon. Also it separates it out even further from the Zoanthrope its nearest competitor.

I don't think it is a competitor with the Zoa.  It has longer/indirect capability versus the AA ability of the Zoa.  To me, it seems these are distinct roles yet roughly comparable in their own ways.

[/qote](#8) Change to 3+ Armor or armor 4+ RA[/quote]

I would go for the 3+.  Keeping the vulnerability to MW/TK if it can be brought to bear seems a good idea.

(#9) : Increase their speed to 25cm

Excuse: I really do not want to give the Nid list more ranged weapons then it already has, and I really do not want to give the AA back to them either. Neither fits them in my mind, but will this mild increase in speed help get them in the fight quicker and make them worth getting. Well that?s the plan anyways.

(#10) : Change the Bio-Plasmic Breath to Spore Cannon no change in stats.

Excuse: Just a name change to separate the two weapons from each other so I can give them different data lines and put the AA where I feel it fits, in the Nids psuedo flyers, which these are.

I don't understand this.  The Dom has historically had psychic blasts, like the Zoa, so AA seems appropriate from that weapon.  And I'm not quite sure why you think that the pseudo-fliers should have the AA ability.

To me, the current weapon loads seem appropriate, but it's the breath weapon that should lose the AA.

===

The rest of the stuff seems okay, at least to the point it should be given the benefit of the doubt for testing.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Jaldon
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:45 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
Sorry not ignoring everybody been away for the last two days, and it is going to happen again next week and the next four weeks (I'll be gone for two to three days in each of those weeks).

The Norn Queen report is very much a balloon to float ideas on and I haven't been ignoring anybody, apologies to ayoras, just been very busy.

I will be giving the entire post a good read later tonight and try to get replies up ASAP.

Time to eat and get in a shower.

Thanks All

Jaldon :p

_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
wraeththu
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:46 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 231
Quote (Jaldon @ 03 Feb. 2006 (22:42))

Outline
: Outside the Hive Tyrant and Lesser Synapse Node, both of which I will touch on later, I am pretty happy with the list. I am thinking of adding a further Synapse group of either 2xTyranid Warriors for 100pts OR 1xTyranid Warrior for 50pts. Any Thoughts?


I think it is adding too many options. ?I don''t see a need to further break down the Tyranid Warriors.

: Cheap, cheap, cheap, and keep thinking cheap. I do not want a single unit in this category to go above 20pts. Less is better!


I don't quite agree with you there. ?I can see trying to keep units under 20pts. ?But as you know I am in favor of units operating like their 40k counterparts over just making them cheap.


Tyranid Proposals
(#2) : Change it to LV, and increase cost to 50pts


Sounds good.

(#3) : Otta here, history, gone, phfffffft. Removed from list!

I am all for this. ?But then I never cared for the unit when it was introduced.

(#4) : Change to 3+ Armor or armor 4+ RA, raise cost to 50pts.

I can see the Carnifex being 4+ RA, but if you use 3+ then at least give it Invulnerable Save.

(#6) : ?Lose Infiltrator, and drop it to 10pts

Sounds good

(#8) Change to 3+ Armor or armor 4+ RA

I think it should be 3+, Invulnerable Save.

(#12) : Change to Brood (2)

I still think the Raveners should have infiltrate. ?It may make them a bit more expensive but they are an elite unit of the brood creatures.

(#14) : Drop the lost claw from all of them.

Excuse: A good idea that removes excess paper work, and has been pointed out, not really needed.

Always a good idea. ?Streamline and elegance over excess.

-Audrey

_________________
My Oubliette: http://audreysoubliette.wordpress.com
Old archive: http://oubliette.tranquility-base.us/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Jaldon
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:39 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
I think it is adding too many options.  I don''t see a need to further break down the Tyranid Warriors.


I am starting to agree that x1 may be a bit silly, but I would like to give the x2 for 100pts a run to see what happens.

Common Brood Creatures:I don't quite agree with you there.  I can see trying to keep units under 20pts.  But as you know I am in favor of units operating like their 40k counterparts over just making them cheap


I want to try and accomplish both, it may not be possible but I would like to try.

I still think the Raveners should have infiltrate.  It may make them a bit more expensive but they are an elite unit of the brood creatures.


A lot of people keep asking for this one, and since I am going to figure out how to allow the Nids to leave Synapse Coherancy in an assault then I am going to give it to them, and then hope it fits in at 20pts :80:

General Comments Hive Tyrant:
I am leaning more toward the 3+ save period no IS as I do want it vulnerable.

General Comments Carnifex:
Seems this is going to be our bugger unit for the Uncommon Brood Creatures, as I would very much like to keep it at 35pts. I will suggest trying both 3+ with Invulnerable Save OR 5+ RA with no Invulnerable Save as a starting point with no change to weapon loadouts.

News to argue over..............................

Well not really, I am planning on putting up the v6.2 list with some of the changes suggested, some notes on possible ideas for the list, and with the typos fixed by Monday. We will call it the v6.22 list as it is just fixed.

Any comments not commented on were not ignored I just didn't have the time to get to them yet.

Thank You All

Jaldon :p

_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
wraeththu
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 231
Quote (Jaldon @ 10 Feb. 2006 (01:39))
General Comments Hive Tyrant:
I am leaning more toward the 3+ save period no IS as I do want it vulnerable.

A 3+ save, IS still makes it vulnerable. ?The IS only gives the HT a 6+. ?So the IS is just to give the HT a chance against MWs. ?A 6+ isn't that much to ask for now is it? :D

-Audrey

_________________
My Oubliette: http://audreysoubliette.wordpress.com
Old archive: http://oubliette.tranquility-base.us/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ObiWan
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:20 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:17 pm
Posts: 54
IMHO the changes are overall good, but with respect to the HT I think he should be 3+ IS or 4+ IS; also I don't like the part of the pesudo fliers having AA, just because they, well, pseudo-fly  :D
If that is the case, gargoyles are supposed to choke the skys and make it impossible for aircraft to zip around, so then they should get an attack vs fliers following that logic.
Now, I don't want to have it removed, just transferred to other units, or we'll get TOO weak vs aircraft.

_________________
In Omnia Paratus
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Jaldon
 Post subject: The Norn Queen's Report
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:26 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
Also on the assault. I still think that it's easier to say that they can ignore the synapse range on engage orders. This will allow them to leave the synapse range, but pay the price if they are too far at the start of the next turn.


I believe I posted just that on the 6.2 thread, I think Neal brought it up in that way, in any case that is how it is going to be worded as it is simple clean and to the point.

A 3+ save, IS still makes it vulnerable.  The IS only gives the HT a 6+.  So the IS is just to give the HT a chance against MWs.  A 6+ isn't that much to ask for now is it?


Is a 6+ too much to ask for, depends how grumpy I am :8:
Seriously I agree 3+ IS is workable for v6.22, lets give it a go. In short 3+ IS, and if that seems OTT then 4+ IS.

If that is the case, gargoyles are supposed to choke the skys and make it impossible for aircraft to zip around, so then they should get an attack vs fliers following that logic.

A Gargoyle isn't going to be able to 'flap' its wings an obtain supersonic speeds, visions of a Wing of Fokker DR.Is trying to ram an F-16 come to mind, but I digress. The removal of AA ability from a number of units in the v6.2 list was an error on my part, the Warp Blast across the board keeps its AA ability, but it is reduced to 5+.

Now, I don't want to have it removed, just transferred to other units, or we'll get TOO weak vs aircraft.

No, no, the Skimmers keep their AA, but I also think that the Nids having availability to Zoanthropes for 35pts increase their AA cover and therefore some of it can be removed from the 'other' less rational candidates.

Raveners with 5+ armour, 4+ CC, 5+ FF, 20cm move and infiltrate... they need to more costly... 25 or 30. Also then they become a better version of hormagaunt. Perhaps drop the FF to 6+?


The smiley was to show I didn't think they could remain at 20pts, sorry if I wasn't clear. However the idea of reducing their FF to 6+ is tempting, for various reasons, and could allow us to keep them at 20pts. Worth a try.

Another thing is that should gargoyle perhaps have 5+FF. Currently they are just faster march, but worse in CC than hormagaunt and worse in FF than termagant. They can do both, but not well.


I'll have to give this one some thought, it would be better IMHO if they were better at CC, that said for some reason they feel like FF would be more their real calling.

A Balloon to float.................

An idea crossed my mind at work today, always a dangerous thing :o0 , but what if we made Myecetic Spores available in both the Independents and Uncommon Brood areas? It would free up more of those valuable points for tanks or Independents while still forcing players to agonize a bit over which. Thoughts?

Thanks All will have the 'fixed' v6.22 up by Monday at the latest.

Jaldon :p

_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 3
  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net