Hmm, if we go with the idea of checking 'control' at the end of a formation's activation, that would also prevent abuses of support as any 'out-of-control' critters would be removed before a second formation attempts to retain.

Ok, so what is the problem with letting 'Leaderless' swarms activate as normal? Until they activate, the swarm will be a relatively compact formation so will not form an excessive 'living wall', and as noted, when they do activate such swarms will either attempt to get back under control of another swarm or perform a last assault and get removed afterwards.

Are there any other problems here?

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Hena's suggestion sounds simple and fair.  I'm still awaiting some nids in the post so hope to be able to join in this discussion soon; sure a bit of theory hammer can be thrown your way though :-)!

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That looks alot better to me. Simple and absracted out to a level of play for Epic.

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It is simple and straightforward to check synapse range only in the end phase.

I just remain concerned about the tactics it allows.  It was the "living fence" that caused so many problems in prior iterations because of its effect on trying to take objectives.  It's inherently less effective now that Nids can break, but a fairly cheap formation of ~15 units (Warriors + 8 broods + whatever spawns it picks up over the game) isn't unrealistic to hold in reserve for a Turn 3/4 blocking March action.  It will tie up 2 enemy formations to remove it at a minimum and those must have position and the firepower or assault capacity to bring a strong attack.  That means the fence is still going to be pretty darn effective.

Another "exploit" of being able to be out of synapse range for most of the turn would be to send broods out of synapse range to shoot/support assault.  The synapse that executes the assault (like a Harridan) can pick up any overextended broods in the end phase.  I'm less concerned about this from a power perspective, though.

Obviously, end phase synapse coherency is the optimum for Nids "saving" swarms by various methods.  I'm not sure how much difference it will make in-game.


I'm willing to try an end-phase synapse coherency check, but it needs some serious testing.

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Neal

I just as rather not try something new here, the control range has been around for a while and is well tested. It's just the way it's currently written that is causing some loop holes.

If we mirror how coherency is enforced in the rule book I think it will be cleaner and confuse people less. It will also serve as a hindrance to the 'nids (which I believe it should be as they are a hive mind) as it's another form of coherency they have to abide by.

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While I am happier for Synapses to pick up stray bugs, I am less sure about the idea of sending broods out of control to support an assault, because that seems to be expecting too much from the critters that are essentially instinctive at that point. OTOH, I do think the current rule too restrictive (as well as being poorly worded).

So, what do people think of applying the control check at the end of the activation?

This is simple to word, would allow assaults and lets 'Leaderless' swarms activate, but removes any stray bugs that remain out of control (thus preventing the supporting anomaly). It is also similar to the current coherency rules - the only difference being that is is not applied after each move (which many forget anyway).

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

It requires a lot of exceptions, unless you keep the integration of non dead synapse swarms in the end phase.

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I think that is the idea Ginger is getting it.  Synapse coherency at the end of the action.  Brood reorg still in the end phase.

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Neal

Neal is correct, I was assuming the re-organisation would still occur at the end phase.

Henna, I was thinking that "any" Synapse control would be OK, so yes, the bugs could start under the control of one Synapse and end under the control of another. This would effectively truncate the support that these "mobile" bugs can provide as  they would have to satisfy a number of criteria, which IMHO would make this "out-of-control" support relatively rare.
1) The most they can move is limited to 40 cms (a double move)
2) Having moved (into the control if Synapse #2) they cannot move again, limiting the distance Synapse #2 can move if it is to stay in control of them.
3) They would have to end their move both with 15cms of Synapse #2 and the target formation, thus Synapse #2 would already have to be within 30cms of the target (and so limiting spawning in the previous turn).
4) They would have to have moved outside 15 cms of Synapse #1 (or else there isn't a problem anyway).

In any event, IMHO it is worth testing this both ways to see which works best.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I'm perhaps a bit late, but I'd like to add my two cents.  

I rather like the Coherency and Swarm reorg system as it is right now. However, no matter how hard I read it, it feels complicated and not very intuitive.

I don't know if this has been tried in one of the many previous versions, but how about going back (sort of) to the SM2 system: each synapse group gives you access to X common broods and Y uncommon broods, and these stay together as a formation for the rest of the game, following normal coherency rules.

So, for example: 1 Assault Group gives you access to 8 Common clusters and 4 Uncommon clusters. One purchased, the Assault Group and its associated broods would be ONE formation and would follow the normal formation/coherency rules. The numbers may be ott, I don't know, but it's just a rough idea.

And I know some people love the reorganisation bit, but isn't that what Spawning is for?

EDIT: And the number of common/uncommon broods could vary from one synapse group to another. So for example 1 Assault Group would be 8c/4u while a Dominatrix would be 6c/6u (bigger boss, bigger troopers). Again, the number are just here as examples, not as what I think would be balanced.