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[Old!] Tyranids v9.0
Dave
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 31 Jul. 2008, 12:39 )

It could work if the Uncommon Brood clutches were smaller, or the Common clutches bigger.

And the "big guys" have teeth and claws too...   :laugh:

I'm still feel that purchasing the Uncommon stuff individually as opposed to in a group would work well. So long as the number of points spent on Uncommon doesn't exceed that spent on Common.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 31 Jul. 2008, 17:53 )

Oh yeah, just to not forget. Can we remove Expendable from Brood WE *nudge, nudge* :;):.

I'm starting to feel that Expendable should only be on Common Broods... those Hive Tyrants and Carnifex/Assault Spawn swarms are rather hard to stop now.

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scarik
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:07 pm 
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I would think Expendable is clearly the role of the lowly 'gaunt.

If its not a 'gaunt, its not Expendable since its not a dime a dozen.

I like the idea idea to change spawning so that I can ride the bugs into the ground.

I think all synapse should be Fearless, it doesn't make much sense for the little nodes to be but not the titans, if anyone loses Fearless it should always be smaller guys first.

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Dave
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:13 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 31 Jul. 2008, 13:34 )

Quote: (Hena @ 31 Jul. 2008, 17:53 )

Oh yeah, just to not forget. Can we remove Expendable from Brood WE *nudge, nudge* :;):.

I'm starting to feel that Expendable should only be on Common Broods... those Hive Tyrants and Carnifex/Assault Spawn swarms are rather hard to stop now.

It was kind of surprising that they all were made Expendable, none of the variant rules attempted to do that.

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Dave
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:38 pm 
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Really?  Was that a later change?  Otherwise, my bad.

I think the trade off for making everything expendable was that formations could no longer automatically rally.




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jaldon454
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:44 pm 
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I would think Expendable is clearly the role of the lowly 'gaunt.


Not according to the guidlines laid down by JJ for the Nids in v1.0, which are the guidlines my fellow miscreants and I have been trying to work toward since taking over the list. For now they remain expendable.

I think all synapse should be Fearless, it doesn't make much sense for the little nodes to be but not the titans, if anyone loses Fearless it should always be smaller guys first.

Outside the Synapse Creatures I agree. However, the Synapse Node is like 10% above ground and 90% below ground and in a lot of ways IS a mindless spawning pool. Fearless IS exactly what it is.

I'm starting to feel that Expendable should only be on Common Broods... those Hive Tyrants and Carnifex/Assault Spawn swarms are rather hard to stop now.

I respectfully disagree, and would rather remove fearless from all of the uncommons, including the Carnifexes, and let Expendable/Spawning reflect their Fearless status. It is a move I am considering.

Yes, but they aren't endless. I'm hesitant to think that this happened last time when maksim vanished. The list started to tune towards bigger bugs instead of smaller. This time I'm trying to be more wary of this happening again

Yes the Big Bug Terror of the list when I took over was scarey, and I must say, and thank, all those that kept it in check during my long abscense. I have no fears, if I am forced to leave again for work, that I will be leaving the Nid List in good hands. Thank You All.

As long as the list is my responsibility I will make every effort to keep it in line with the vision laid down for it by JJ. Think of it as Starship Troopers and the numbers seen in it during the assault on the fort, that is the endless wall of bugs, claws, and teeth.

Umm... I meant that so far Exocrine hasn't been seen much here. Barbed Hierodule, Hierophant and Dominatrix has been. So I see the weapon being the problem (on the other units) and not the Exocrine actually.

Oooops me bad sorry misunderstood :vo

We have been seeing a rise in the Exocrine's use, mixed with Biovores, in some games and I am not entirely happy with the results they are achieving. They seem too powerful. Yet I have not seen the same problem with the Hierodule/Hierophant/Dominatrix. Though I admit they are not being used in great numbers on our fields of battle ( I had two playtests where I purposely maxed out as much as I could on the WEs and is what has brought me to the conclusion they are TOO available. I now must look closer at their Bio-Cannon mounts during the next couple of games to see if I can grasp your point, thanks.)


For Tyrant I was thinking something along the lines of

2 Nexus (350)
1 Assault (500)
5 Attack (1000)


I have used similar layouts of Synapse before and used some of the Attacks as mobile spawning points to sustain the front line swarms. I have also seen the Tyrants die horrible deaths when they are left unprotected by AV/LV bugs in front of them. Sorry but I still do not see this as a problem.

It could work if the Uncommon Brood clutches were smaller, or the Common clutches bigger.

And the "big guys" have teeth and claws too..

Yes they do, but JJ was very clear that the intention was to have the Commons be the around 50% of the army on the table. His first attempt involved a 1/4 point limit on each of Synapse/Uncommon/Independents and no limit on commons (Thus in a 3,000 point game 750pts for Synapse, 750pts for Independents, 750pts for Uncommons.) Considering the points scale for units then this just about forced one to have a 3 to 1 ratio of Commons to everything else. Every step taken by JJ from that point on went toward keeping that ratio.

We have tried to return the list back in that direction without going back to the 1/4 limit. Now I will not do it again at 1/4 because it was way to restrictive, but I might push the Common/Uncommon ratio to one for three rather then raise points or mess with the present Brood structure, both of which I think work fine (We might mess around with them to balance the list but I do not want to change the concept behind it.)

Still planning on testing the Mass Tyrant idea Hena, just don't see it as a problem per your clarification above.

Thanks All.......

Jal :p don

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Dave
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Are you pointing out that by doing a global spawn roll you can look at all your formations, determine how many spawn points they each get, and then place the spawning creatures however you like?

If so. Yes, I don't like it either. When it was spawn rolls by unit I tried to do the important spawn rolls first to get full choice of those in my spawn pool.

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jaldon454
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:57 pm 
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Anyway it's from the point that now there is no chances of failing to spawn.


Under the proposed changes I posted there is. A broken Swarm that is within 30cms of an enemy cannot spawn.

so I might not get enough points to spawn the bigger bugs, but I will still get to choose freely on who spawns and what.

I do not know if I got this right, but here goes. The spawn points aren't merged across the battlefield. Each swarm only gets 'X' number of spawn points based upon its own Synapse Spawn Value plus the Spawn points received from the Spawning roll. This Swarm cannot 'loan' any of its Spawning points to any other Swarm in the army, so if the Swarm in question has any Spawn points left over they are lost.

If it is because the Nids can 'choose' which swarm spawns what with the points it has available to it, and the units available in the 'dead pool', then I don't really see it as a problem.

Yes, the Nid player can use it to 'redeploy' units to the exact swarm desired. But the number of units allowed to be 'redeployed' in this manner are limited by those available in the 'dead pool' and the number of points available to that swarm.

If the dead pool contains only Gaunts, then the player can only redeploy Gaunts, and nothing else.

So am I missing something or are either of the above on the spot?

Thanks All.........

Jaldon :p

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Dave
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Jaldon, the point I think Hena is trying to make is that with a single spawning roll you know ahead of time what every formation is going to spawn.

Whereas in the earlier variants, each spawning rolls effects what you can spawn in subsequent spawning rolls.

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Ginger
 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Jaldon, I think Hena is pointing out that when rolling for individual swarms, he had to decide then and there what to give to the particular swarm, with the risk that subsequently poor dice may mean that he may not be able to use the favoured bug in a later swarm.

While a niggle, I agree with you that the whole "warve of bugs" effect and the way the army plays tends to make it less material where any given bug respawns (or at least in my games it does :smile: ).

==========================================
Ok, so I type slowly, and everyone got in first saying the same thing :vo

Just a question on the SC re-roll, can this be used on the spawning roll??




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