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[OLD] Tyranids v9.2!

 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 03 Mar. 2009, 10:00 )

I'm going to run out of people to play test against due to this little note.

I guess that means I'm the next guinea pig.  :vD

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 03 Mar. 2009, 15:00 )

The 1/2 casualties for Gaunts is still not needed in my opinion. I'm also not finding it very fun. I'm going to run out of people to play test against due to this little note.

If you were using less Gaunts because of their price how was this having such a big effect?  And what is the problem people have with it?

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:01 pm 
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It's having an effect because I'm winning assaults outright because of the rule. Assaults that would have been close in 9.1 I now have a +2 or more to resolution. BMs don't matter as much anymore.

It just looks wrong to see an Infantry company with 1/2 or its strength, HW, Ogryn and Sniper upgrades fall back at the terrifying site of a single Termagant stand and a Malefactor.

I'd rather win an assault through overwhelming numbers then because my causalities count for half.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 03 Mar. 2009, 16:01 )

It's having an effect because I'm winning assaults outright because of the rule. Assaults that would have been close in 9.1 I now have a +2 or more to resolution. BMs don't matter as much anymore.

Why is that? If anything, BMs are now more of a problem for 'nids since they tend to lose more Synapse creatures than before. Sure they have Zoanthropes now, but they are slow and easily killed (thus generating more BMs).

It just looks wrong to see an Infantry company with 1/2 or its strength, HW, Ogryn and Sniper upgrades fall back at the terrifying sight of a single Termagant stand and a Malefactor.


I don't really understand this. Could you please be more specific?

Also, note that only Termagants and Hormagaunts losses count for half in assault. All other units count for full when destroyed in an assault.

I'd rather win an assault through overwhelming numbers then because my causalities count for half.

Again, only Gaunts casualties count for half. In my (so far only) game with the 9.2 list, this came into effect in two assaults:

- in the first one, only 1 Hormagaunt stand managed to make it within 15 cm of the target formation (Sentinels). The Hormagaunt died (+0 for the opponent) and I won the assault by +2 (outnumbering bonus). Without the Expendable rule, I still would have won by +1.

- in the second assault (1000 points of 'nids vs. a Reaver Titan), 3 Hormagaunts died. I won the assault by +7 and would "only" have won by +5 had it not been for this rule.

These may not be very representative, but the Expendable rule (once again, applicable to Gaunts only) didn't turn a loss into a win.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Quote: (Hojyn @ 03 Mar. 2009, 16:29 )

These may not be very representative, but the Expendable rule (once again, applicable to Gaunts only) didn't turn a loss into a win.

"Expendable" applies to all Brood Creatures in a Synapse Swarm, the "only half count" applies only to Gaunts... two effects in play there.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 03 Mar. 2009, 16:34 )

"Expendable" applies to all Brood Creatures in a Synapse Swarm, the "only half count" applies only to Gaunts... two effects in play there.

Well, yes, that's what I meant... even if it wasn't very clear.  :p


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:42 pm 
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@Hojyn

BMs mean less in an assault now. Where before it was important for me to go in with a +2 (no BMs on me and BMs on my opponent), that doesn't really play a factor for me anymore given the gaunt rule.

As to my example, it was the result of one of my assaults. That IG company broke and ran from my swarm, which only contained a Termagant and Haurspex after all the hits were worked out. I get the rule and how it works. I don't think it's needed.

As to your examples, I believe no one should have won in the first one. If the sentinels killed everything with 15cm the assault would have been over.




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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 03 Mar. 2009, 16:42 )

As to my example, it was the result of one of my assaults. That IG company broke and ran from my swarm, which only contained a Termagant and Haurspex after all the hits were worked out.

How many kills were inflicted by both sides here?  The Imperials would've still had "vastly out-number" and, I assume, "inspiring", plus all the non-Guant kills if this was a Warrior Swarm... that's at least +3 not including the kills.

I'm *REALLY* jonesing for your report!  *LAUGH*

And, just to be clear, you take the total number of Gaunts killed and divide by two, not half the Terms and half the Hormies...

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:31 am 
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I had a small test game (2000) yesterday, but a bad dice roll for TW saves lost me the game. I failed all three 4+ saves, since I had foolishly made the same mistake that Dave did, I put the gaunts in cover of Assault Spawns and in effect invited the enemy to make AP potshots. He scored three hits and I promptly failed all of them. This was the last activation of the turn so I could not save the swarm.

Otherwise, I still think the Mobility rule and LV status are interesting. I just have to model more Raveners :)

Quote: (Chroma @ 03 Mar. 2009, 16:48)

And, just to be clear, you take the total number of Gaunts killed and divide by two, not half the Terms and half the Hormies...


A question, I read the rules as rounding down, whereas these kinds of rules usually rounds up. How do we round gaunt casualties?

By the way, I still used 3 gaunts/brood, since I did not think of the change as official, so I had the same impression Dave had, the swarms were really small.

I took some pictures, but no report this time, Chroma, since I did a huge mistake that turned out to cost me the game. Interestingly enough, the remaining swarms kept the pressure on, and it was a 1-1 tie in the 3rd (Tyranids: TSNP, Marines: BTS (go figure)), and ended a 2-0 in the 4th (Marines: BTS and TNSP). Instead, I will try them again later this week.

/Fredmans




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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:46 am 
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Quote: (fredmans @ 04 Mar. 2009, 08:31 )

I had a small test game (2000) yesterday, but a bad dice roll for TW saves lost me the game. I failed all 3+ saves, since I had foolishly made the same mistake that Dave did, I put the gaunts in cover of Assault Spawns and in effect invited the enemy to make AP potshots. He scored three hits and I promptly failed all of them. This was the last activation of the turn so I could not save the swarm.

Tyranid Warriors have a 4+ save, not 3+. Or am I missing something obvious?

That said, a 3+ save for TW may be just what is needed to increase their survivability as LVs. After all, 3 TW (it is 3 per stand, right?) are as tough as a Carnifex.

Not sure it's really needed right now, but if playtests show that TW are too vulnerable as LVs, a 3+ save might be an interesting alternative to going back to INF status.


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:57 am 
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When I edited the post, I accidentally deleted too much, it should have said "all 3 4+ saves".

Edit: Previous post corrected as well.

/Fredmans




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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Quick question for Chroma. In the next version, I understand the Common Broods clusters will be:

4 Gaunts for 75 pts
4 Gargoyles for 100 pts

and is it 4 Raveners for 100 pts ? 3 Raveners for 100 pts? 4 Raveners for 125 pts?

I'm trying to make a list right now and I'm a bit confused.  :p


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:26 pm 
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This came up in a game last night. It was called due to time but Minervans had it 1-0 with BTS.

A swarm of just two Malfactors breaks and withdraws. It rallies in the end phase and has 1 BM, it is also close enough to another Assault Swarm to join it in reorganization. Does the BM come with it? Reorg paragraph says it stays with the Synapse, but what happens when there are no synapse for it to stay with?

Depending on how today goes I will try to get the reports up.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 05 Mar. 2009, 14:26 )

A swarm of just two Malfactors breaks and withdraws. It rallies in the end phase and has 1 BM, it is also close enough to another Assault Swarm to join it in reorganization. Does the BM come with it? Reorg paragraph says it stays with the Synapse, but what happens when there are no synapse for it to stay with?

The old Synapse Group is gone... so the Blast markers are also gone.  They always stay with the original swarm... that swarm doesn't exist anymore, so there's no Blast markers.

I'll figure out a way to word that better.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Chroma, I'm not sure you saw my question just above Dave's post. Or perhaps you just don't know the answer ?  :p


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