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Anyone got a review of the French rules?
zombocom
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Only allowing a hold order isn't a bad idea, i.e. it automatically fails its activation. This would allow it to either stand still and hold the area or to slowly walk towards another synapse.

Another option would be for them to instantly become broken, since being broken is generally considered to be equivilent to disorganisation, and not be able to rally until it has joined up with another synapse.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Quote: (tneva82 @ 02 Jul. 2009, 19:33 )

Quote: (BlackLegion @ 02 Jul. 2009, 19:31 )

Yep. Tyranids don't transform into harmles headless chickens when away from their Synapses.

Harmless no. Inefficient fighting unit yes.

Inefficient yes, but not entirely ineffective.

Tyranids that fail a Synapse test in Warhammer 40,000 can still shoot ranged weaponry (at a target decided by the player/Hive Mind), or move backwards, roughly akin to a Hold order.

Tyranids that are outside of Synapse range in BFG are still very dangerous, and will perform a pretty logical (if inflexible) set of battle orders (generally get close to the enemy and try and eat them!) until Synapse regains control over them.

Even resorting to infighting.

This only happens in the absolute absence of the Hive Mind AFAIK, such as when the Norn Queen is killed as quoted by Chroma, or the planet populated by nothing by Hormagaunts referred to in the 4th edition Tyranid Codex.

Beyond the scope of an Epic battle?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 02 Jul. 2009, 20:34 )

The question about how to deal with a swarm without a synapse has been around much longer. The ERC approach of removing these leaderless critters works on one level, but perhaps is a simplification too far, hence the French approach of reduced initiative.

If a significantly reduced initiative is unacceptable, other alternatives could be :-
- That the swarm can only take certain actions. Perhaps it can only attempt to assault enemy formations?
- That the swarm stays put and loses any activation capability. It just represents an area under the control of Tyranids (so it still contests objectives)
- That the swarm will make a single move in the end phase in a random direction, assaulting anything that it contacts (both Tyranid and enemy)

I would add:
- Fails every action test automatically ), so receives a Blastmarker and takes a Hold action.
Variant:
- Can only perform Engage actions. If no enemy is in range to Engage the Swarm automatically fails its action test, receives a Blastmarker and takes a Hold action.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 02 Jul. 2009, 19:34 )

The question about how to deal with a swarm without a synapse has been around much longer. The ERC approach of removing these leaderless critters works on one level, but perhaps is a simplification too far, hence the French approach of reduced initiative.

If a significantly reduced initiative is unacceptable, other alternatives could be :-
- That the swarm can only take certain actions. Perhaps it can only attempt to assault enemy formations?
- That the swarm stays put and loses any activation capability. It just represents an area under the control of Tyranids (so it still contests objectives)
- That the swarm will make a single move in the end phase in a random direction, assaulting anything that it contacts (both Tyranid and enemy)

Conceptually, only allowing 'Hold' or 'Engage' as orders for formations that have lost their Synapse might work?

That's essentially a -6 penalty with initiative, with a +6 bonus if they want to Engage, something Tyranids would be instinctively keen on...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 02 Jul. 2009, 19:38 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jul. 2009, 19:25 )

Consequently, having creatures that go outside of Synapse range completely absent themselves from the battlefield has struck me as odd for a while.

They don't "completely absent themselves"... they wait around until the Hive Mind reconnects them to give them new orders, via Spawning.

In the current rules, those Synapse-less creatures are considered tactically ineffective, but they can be rendered effective again by being brought within control of a Synapse.

I realise what the abstraction is meant to represent, but in practice in a game those units really do just go "poof"; Mechanically it is no different to them having been shot and killed.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jul. 2009, 19:42 )

Conceptually, only allowing 'Hold' or 'Engage' as orders for formations that have lost their Synapse might work?

This seems an ideal solution to me.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Well, go forth and test some of these things, Broodlings!   :alien:

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Woa! You all post so fast i have to actually scroll up and down to not miss any postings.

Well, go forth and test some of these things, Broodlings!

Ok. When will your plane land at Halle Airport?  :laugh:




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:54 pm 
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That must engage or take bm and hold is interesting for the tunnelling brood.

Edit - hell have init 6+ and +5 for having a synapse or engaging, or +4 for being independant.

Anyway I'll go back to being a tyranid lurker now.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:02 pm 
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It's mor einteresting if you takeinto account Vaaishs proposal in this thread http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....y322669 to remove Brood from WE (thus making them not spawnable).

In this instance you could say that if a Swarm includes at least one non-Brood creature it is treated as Independant because themore intelligent/sentient creatures take lead.
Off course then Synapse Swarms and Independant Swarms have to get different Initiative values.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:31 pm 
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I'm also vehermently against war engines being expendable. By whatever criteria you choose to use they're just not expendable, even to the hive mind. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth and is definitely something first time opponents are surprised at.

Ditto for spawning war engines.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:44 pm 
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However is there a in-game reason to change this?


There are comments that the list is too complicated.

I see this as a serious downgrade to Tyranids as you can wipe out serious amount of units.

Which is probably why the French got rid of Spawning when they instituted the Initiative penalty for activating.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Anyone got a review of the French rules?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:53 pm 
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If you ask me i would make only Gaunts spawnable and Expendable. They are by far the most common Tyranid creature. Others are just to rare, to specialised, to big and/or to independant.

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