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[Old!] Tyranids v9.0

 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:38 pm 
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However I would be interested in hearing how your opponent formed one big swarm out of three?


During the first turn he moved three swarms into the middle of the table and assigned them to the Dominatrix in the end phase. In the second turn he got the initiative and launched an attack that destroyed two Warhounds, one Reaver and one Infantry Company. But the tables turned at the beginning of the third turn an the Guard fought down the Tyranids in one huge firefight. It was really EPIC ;-)
Firefights are the way I will deal with Nids. It also surprises the nid-player if you give Engage orders ;-)


It would seem that despite the tweeks you suggest that you also feel the list is balanced.

Yes.

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Heh, Engaging the bugs... my Steel Legion has that kind of confidence with its cheap 5+ FFs, my Minervans not so much.

Counting WEs as units = DC my army has 50 total models, Steel Legion easily doubles that.

On paper, knowing now that Tyrant Synapse was a typo, the 'Nids look good mostly, I think biotitans are a bit much and the ability to swarm with 4 and 6 DC bugs is too much.

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:17 pm 
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Ok, Minervans will have to do the job at greater range.

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Quote: (Elias @ 24 Jul. 2008, 13:17 )

Ok, Minervans will have to do the job at greater range.

Easier said than done against Phase III.  :;):

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:03 am 
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The Phase III Ilist I faced only one time and it was integrated into a scenario. But it was a very tough fight and nearly the whole game was about fighting FF/CC.

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:16 pm 
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Ok had a big gaming Saturday with a couple of Nid v9.0 battles, one that I judged (Eldar Biel Tann vs Nid).

Jack (Nid) had the following

x2 Assault Swarms of x3 Tyranid Warrior, x12 Hormogants, x6 Raveners
x1 Attack Swarm of x2 Hive Tyrant, x9 Carnifex
x1 Artillery Swarm of x1 Synapse Node, x4 Dactylis
x1 Support Swarm of x1 Synapse Node
x2 Genestealer Swarms of x9 Genestealers
x2 Lictor Swarms of x5 Lictors

Bob (Eldar) had the following
x1 Guardian Host w/Wraithguard
x1 Guardian Host w/Wave Serpents
x1 Aspect Host x4 Striking Scorpions, x4 Dire Avengers, x4 Wave Serpents
x1 Aspect Host x4 Howling Banshee, x4 Dire Avengers, x4 Wave Serpent
x1 Fire Prisim Troupe
x1 Falcon Troupe
x1 Night Spinner Troupe
x1 Windrider Troupe
x1 EoV x2 Scorpion SHT

This was an interesting battle because while both players had faced these armies before, neither of them had ever before this commanded the army they were using.

In turn one the Eldar pretty much doubled and fired on the two approaching Assault Swarms using the extra move after fire to redeploy some formations. The Nids pretty much marched or doubled across the table  in a big deep line (From left to right Genestealers, Assault, Attack, Assault, Genestealers). Bob inflicted so few losses on the Nids that they easily spawned back all their losses. Bob was heard to grumble about not concentrating enough fire to overcome the spawning.

In turn two Bob switched tactics to engaging the Nid Assault Swarms in Fire Fights, however he diluted his own attacks by never combining formations (When he could have), and only engaging the center attack Swarm with fire from the Scorpions and Falcons. By the end of the turn both Assault Swarms had been broken back and the Attack Swarm was standing within striking distance of the Eldar Blitz. In the end phase Jack was able to spawn back all but a handful of Hormagants and a Carnifex. It was then that Bob realized he had spending too much trying to figure out how to KIA Nids and not spending any time considering the battlefield objectives, basically he had none and the Nids had all but Blitz and Break Thier Spirit :vo

In turn three Jack teleported the Lictors onto both flanks of the Eldar Blitz, being held by the Night Spinners and Scorpion Aspect Host, while Bob brought in the Avatar. Now Bob hurled the Avatar (Why, why, why!) into one of the Lictor Broods and the bugs promptly cut him to pieces, and one of the hits came up a critical placing a single BM on every Eldar formation except the Guardians in Wave Serpents! It would be Bobs last real mistake of the turn as he then used the Guardians to launch combined attacks with the Aspect Warriors against the two Assault Swarms. These attacks were very successful reducing both of them to mere shadows of their former selves, and managing to take two Tyranid Warriors out in the process. On the flanks Bob launched FF assaults on the Genestealers wiping out one of them and driving the other back with only three left in the Brood. Everything else either FF assaulted or shot at the two Lictor Broods till both were smoking ruins. Only the EoV avoided fire on the Lictors wacking the Carnifex Swarm and taking out four of the hulking beasts. This didn't prevent the Carnifexes from launching thier assault into the Eldar Blitz which cleared away the Eldar.

Jack was unable to come close to replacing the massive losses he suffered in turn three, but it didn't matter as Bob hadn't been able to make up for 'forgetting' about the battlefield objectives. Game, set, match Nids.

Bob realized too late that he hadn't been paying attention to Jack's bugs quietly scooping up one battlefield objective after another while inflicting negligable losses on the Eldar Army. Bob said he was transfixed by the huge Swarms closing on his army and was concentrating entirely on how to stop them. Had Bob been combining his Assaults in turn two, when he could have, he would have been able to drive the Nids off and had a chance to win. But as he didn't and he had to try and push the Nids off in turn three AND try to clear off his own objectives which led directly to his defeat.

Once Bob shifted gears in turn three he was easily able to overcome Jacks ability to respawn back losses, and even though it was now too late to salvage the battle, it did show how one can accomplish it. Many players watching took note of this fact for their own coming battles later against the Bugs.

In other battles Rich's Orks and my Nids got into a big bloody duff up (what game with Rich and me isn't a bloody duff up), the highlight being the Huge Stompa Mob assault with the Hydraphant which went two rounds with the one Killa Kan left standing and the Hydraphant face down in the mud! In the end the remanents, and I do mean remenants, of both armies faced each other over a 3-1 Nid win. In turn one I easily spawned back all my losses, but once Rich's Boyz got moving in turn two I never was able to come close to spawning back all my losses. Enough to stay well and good in the fight, yes, but never all.

The IG of Phil trounced Gary's Nids but I didn't get to pay much attention to it as I was real busy fighting with Rich's Orks at the time. The few moments I had to look in on them it looked like Gary was struggling against the IG firing line trying to come to grips with them while trying to avoid a direct confrontation with the Stormtroopers in Valkyries. I really wished I'd had more time to have watched this battle to see what Phil had done to Gary. However all I can really report is the IG won.

From what I did see the fact that Nids can now be broken has taken some of the edge off their ability to maintain a straight up advance, which I feel is a good thing, and that when an opponent concentrates their combat power, and then follows it up, they can roll the Nids back on their heels spawning wise.

Do I think the list is perfect yet, no. Do I think it is moving in the right direction, yes.

For my two cents both spawning and points values are probably going to need some small adjustments here and there but I am pleased with the way the list is working.

Thanks All....................

Jaldon :p

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Quote: (Elias @ 24 Jul. 2008, 12:38 )

However I would be interested in hearing how your opponent formed one big swarm out of three?


During the first turn he moved three swarms into the middle of the table and assigned them to the Dominatrix in the end phase. In the second turn he got the initiative and launched an attack that destroyed two Warhounds, one Reaver and one Infantry Company. But the tables turned at the beginning of the third turn an the Guard fought down the Tyranids in one huge firefight. It was really EPIC ;-)
Firefights are the way I will deal with Nids. It also surprises the nid-player if you give Engage orders ;-)

Sorry for the delayed response here.

What you posted sounds like you assigned the three swarms to the Dominatrix including their synapse creatures. Now while you can reassign critters from one swarm to the next (when in range etc) I do not think you are allowed to combine Synapses in this way. Did I misread what you did?

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:57 am 
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It was my opponent ;-) But he did not assign the synapse creatures to the Dominatrix. One of the Synapses was even broken because of the BM`s they received during the turn.

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Hena, I think you mean the restriction of requiring the taking of one common for each uncommon taken, correct?

This is no more of a restriction then requiring a Siege Player to take Siege Regiments to get the other good stuff, though I disagree that there is no reason to take Assault Groups. I used three of them in my game against Rich, and Jack used two in his battle (Both games I was involved in as I judged Jack and Bobs game).

I agree that Hive Tyrants are tough to get at, and I have seen one go down since v9.0, but it is a combination of the tough creatures in front of them and their toughness in general, I believe right now.

However, this doesn't mean the list cannot be 'bent' to include very few Common creatures, take the following as an example

Independents
x1 Hierophant=275pts
x1Hierophant=275pts
x1Hydraphant=375pts
Total=975pts

Hive Group
Dominatrix=450pts
x6 Hierodule=750pts
x4 Termagaunts=75pts
Total=1,275pts

Harassment Group
x1 Harridan=200pts
x4 Gargoyle=100pts
Total=300pts

Strike Group
x1 Vituperator=300pts
x8 Gargoyle=200pts
Total=500pts

Now I admit this is an extreme example which contains no less then twelve WEs, and sixteen commons but it does show what is possible.

As to my comment on 'satisfaction' with the list it refers directly too the radical change in the special rules and how they are working out.

IMHO the changes to the special rules are creating the correct feel of an endless wave of bugs, (Hence my satisfaction) but I would have to be stupid not to realize that such a radical change in the special rules isn't going to cause disruption in point values.

No doubt corrections in Spawning Values and Point Values are going to be needed as no one could predict ahead of time what effect the new special rules were going to have. That said playtesting the list is going to be the only way to properly approach any changes needed in these areas.

I am not blowing you off Hena just stating my position, your comment on point values has been noted.

Thanks

Jaldon :p

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:47 pm 
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And yes, before anyone says it, I do find the Nids ability to field a large number of WEs as shown in the example above to be a problem.

I am going to test dropping the Rally Bonus and the engage bonus to +1 each to see what happens.

Jaldon :p

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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:25 pm 
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I'd go for

275 Hierophant
275 Hierophant
275 Hierophant
150 Lictors

450 Dominatrix
125 Synapse Node, arty formation, garrisoned off blitz in corner to corner game
125 Synapse Node, probably also an arty formation, garrisoned off blitz in corner to corner game
300 Vituperator

1025 of stuff

7 super hard formations, 1 chaff for a possible objective grab. You can never have enough fearless auto rallying WE in my AMTL opinion.

Rational in batrep thread.




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 Post subject: [Old!] Tyranids v9.0
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Don't panic, I will be posting some off the wall suggestions tonight or tommorrow.

Jaldon :p

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