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[Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Okay, I've read over the "broken" threads, thought about things, bounced some ideas off of people and have put together a "preview" of changes for the next version of the Tyranids.

My group has never found the Tyranids to be as broken as Neal's group, but, in retrospect, we certainly didn't "push" the list to the extreme edge as we should have. ?Quite a nasty Hive Tyrant Neal has! ?I really appreciated that input as well as the other issues raised.

I definitely want to see the Tyranids as a fun and balanced army; fun for both the player and any opponents and balanced in that tough choices have to be made.

So, please take a look at the following and tear it a new bile hole if possible!  This is just a preview and nothing is set in stone.  If response if overwhelmingly negative it will be scrapped and I'll start again.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Special Rules changes.

Clumped the various Tyranid specific Special Rules into two main catagories.

Swarms

Synapse creatures now have a "Synape (x)" value which indicates how many Brood units they can control; multipe Synapse creature groups add this together and Brood creatures in excess ar lost.

Swarms that engage do not ignore normal coherency.

Unstoppable

Unactivated swarms may only take a Hold action if they lose and survive.

Spawning

Synapse groups suffer a -1 to spawning points for each missing member, WE Synapse not affected by this.


Units changes:

FF5+ is the best that any Tyranid creature gets.

Both Bio-Titans have been reduced by 2DC, Hierophants are a bit cheaper, Hydraphants stay the same.

Lesser Nodes are more expensive and are "mindless".

Greater Nodes 2DC and more expensive.

Hierodules increased to 150 points, Barbed unchanged, Scythed gets a +1 EA IC added to its Acid Spray.

Malefactor's "Large Spine Banks" give +2EA at FF5+

Considerations:

Haven't added/changed these, but want input:

Lictors and Genestealers: move first strike to their Extra Attacks instead of Notes.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:56 pm 
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Why did the Trygon lose its Invulnerable Save?
This is one of the cool things about the Trygon, it's the only Titan-class unit (Tyranid or otherwise) with an Invulnerable Save in 40k.





Synapse creatures now have a "Synape (x)" value which indicates how many Brood units they can control; multipe Synapse creature groups add this together and Brood creatures in excess ar lost.


This is an excelent start, and only playtesting can tell where the limits should lie.


Unstoppable - Unactivated swarms may only take a Hold action if they lose and survive.

I'm not entirely sure about this one, but at least it's a radical shift.

Synapse groups suffer a -1 to spawning points for each missing member, WE Synapse not affected by this.

Very good!


Both Bio-Titans have been reduced by 2DC, Hierophants are a bit cheaper, Hydraphants stay the same.

I'm not sure that the Hierophant should be so low in DC... I think DC5 might be more appropriate.

Lesser Nodes are more expensive and are "mindless"

Greater Nodes 2DC and more expensive.

Remove them! :D

Hierodules increased to 150 points, Barbed unchanged, Scythed gets a +1 EA IC added to its Acid Spray.

Considering that these almost-never spawn back, I think 150 may be too much.

It's the upper edge of acceptable, anyway.


Lictors and Genestealers: move first strike to their Extra Attacks instead of Notes.

I don't think this is a good idea... both units should be absolutely brutal if they get the chance to assault enemies on their own terms.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:31 pm 
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Oh yes, changed/tightened some of the WE critical effects as well.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:35 pm 
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(Hena @ Jun. 10 2007,20:32)
QUOTE
Hmm, you realise that the Hierophant at 250 means that 3k games can have 4 of them?

I do, and it does worry my a little, but is that as fearsome as 4 Warhounds?  With the lessened DC they are "scout" Bio-Titans as opposed to battle Titans.

That also means no Genestealers or Lictors or Aerial Spore Mines.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:37 pm 
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And another thing... *LAUGH*

I REALLY want to change the name of the "Mycetic Spores" to something else and return that name to the Tyranid "drop pod" equivalent (No, I'm not adding that to the current list!  *laugh*).

I don't want to get rid of the "spawn booster" item, but I'd like a better name for it, any ideas?

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Hojyn
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Hi Chroma,

I don't have much time to go over thinfs in detail right now, but in general I really like this list of changes.

More when I've had time to read it through.

EDIT : I agree with Hena, btw, Gargoyles should lose their AA ability ; Spores are a great idea and should be the main (the only?) AA defense for the nids.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:10 pm 
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(Hena @ Jun. 10 2007,20:28)
QUOTE
One more thing. We might want to change the Bio Cannon to AP4+/AT4+ instead of AP3+/AT4+. As it's horribly good at the moment. It feels too good for Tyranids.

I'm highly against this.

This weapon is dramatically more effective against infantry than it is against tanks... that's why I originally proposed AP3+/AT4+ way back when I first started arguing that the 'Nid Bio Titans needed looking at.


Barbed is now almost pointless compared to Scythed. Remove the +1EA ff attack from Scythed. And keep the cost down to 125. Scythed and Barbed don't need to cost same. And lowering the FF on Barbed might be sufficient.


I'm largely with Hena here.


Gargoyle should lose the AA immediately!

I'm fully with Hena on this issue.

Both the fluff nut and the game-balance nut are decrying AA Gargoyles. :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:15 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 10 2007,19:56)
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This is one of the cool things about the Trygon, it's the only Titan-class unit (Tyranid or otherwise) with an Invulnerable Save in 40k.

Wow, I would've thought you, of all people, would be against the Trygon having invulnerable save since the Forge World version (I suppose, the only version anymore) doesn't have it.  *laugh*

Yet the FW Hierophant does have a Warp Field, but no one want to add invulnerable save to the Bio-Titans!

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:31 pm 
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Wow, I would've thought you, of all people, would be against the Trygon having invulnerable save since the Forge World version (I suppose, the only version anymore) doesn't have it.


Yes it does.

It has a 6+ Invulnerable Save, which may be used on any turn where it doesn't use its electricity-based ranged attack. It is the only Titan class unit in 40k with an Invulnerable Save.

So yeah, I think it's fluffy to have it in Epic. :)

Yet the FW Hierophant does have a Warp Field

No it doesn't; The Malanthrope has a Warp Field.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:37 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 10 2007,22:31)
QUOTE
Yes it does.

I just have the Trygon .pdf off of the FW website, and it doesn't have any kind of special save there, did they add some kind of invulnerable save to them in IA4?

And the Hierophant has a "Warp Field" 5+ invulnerable save save in IA Update 2005, was that changed as well?

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