Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

[Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage

 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:46 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
The inclusion of the "flamer" template has been causing quite a bit of discussion, both here and on the Specialist site.  I believe the main point of contention is how to deal with formations with multiple "flamer" weapons: overlap vs non-overlap, etc.  Personally, I think the "flamer template" should've been included in the core rules originally, my thought that it should use the "Barrage Table", but as an "alternate shape" template with shorter range.  Everything else would be just like current barrage use.

Currently, there's no way to have multiple flamer templates in the Tyranid list.  Three units have a Bio-Plasma Breath weapon that uses this template: Dominatrix, Hydraphant, and Vituperator.

One alternate suggestion to flamer template use is using short range, 15cm, BP weapons to represent them.  This gives essentially the same range of attack as the flamer template, uses established rules, and eliminates a special rule.  

With the experimentat MW Barrage rules, a 2 BP weapon would give the same to-hit values as the current flamer weapon.

So, the discussion is, do people think we should stay with the flamer template or convert them over to barrage weapons?  For the Dom and Hydra, this is an easy switch, but the Vituperator would need some other tweaking as it already has a non-MW barrage attack.

So, thoughts?

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
*Deep breath*

I agree with Hena.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:41 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Evil and Chaos @ May 22 2007,23:15)
QUOTE
*Deep breath*

I agree with Hena.

*LAUGH*

Well, I don't think the flame template is a huge problem for the Tyranid list, as it only shows up as a single unit weapon, so the multiple template thing doesn't come up.

I agree that it should be dealt with in a "core rule" situation, just curious as to people's thoughts about it becoming a BP weapon.

So, I guess I agree with Hena as well!

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:33 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 726
Location: London
i think that it should use an exitsing rule such as the BP table, mainly because it's a easy fix to the problem.
and so i agree with Hena too.

_________________
"Dyslexia is a Privilege, not a right"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Hi!
I have no problems replacing flame templates rules by standard barrage rules.

I don't think flame templates bring something really important to the rules, but I understand that some players can consider it fun.

So, it's more a cosmetic choice for me. As I play more often against nids than with them, I'll let others chooses


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:58 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
I think the Nid list needs to go to BP because the flamer template is huge.  It may be short ranged, but it covers almost the same area as 2 barrage templates.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:43 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Why would you have to worry about units between you and the target?

If the Nids are firing, it's their action. Anything with a flame template is a WE and can be picked out of the formation via targetting so very few units matter with respect to arranging the formation.  Just place them so you have a clear field of fire.  It only takes a narrow corridor.

It's not like you're ever going to Sustain Fire with it so you can't move.  If the enemy's that close you're going to assault.  The only time you might possibly need to shoot over a friendly without moving to rearrange would be with a Hold action.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:12 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Barrage.

But then again I dislike the teardrop template for scaling and other reasons.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France
Barrage looks like the most simple solution and as Thurse said, the flame template is fun but mainly a cosmetic choice.

Barrage gets my vote.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Beavercreek, Ohio, USA
While the discussion pretty much boils down to cosmetic and aesthetic differences, when you have a 15cm ranged BP weapon you might as well make it a flamer template or just simply portray the attack as extra FF attacks.  

What is the purpose of having a 15cm ranged BP attack?  It is either to have it be a fun addition to the stats as a flamer attack or to have it contribute to firefights.  Keeping it as a short-ranged standard barrage weapon seems rather pointless to me.  Either have fun with it as a flamer template or just abstract it into FF ability.

_________________
I shot a Deathstrike Missile and destroyed an enemy titan in my pajamas last night. ?How it got into my pajamas I still don't know...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:54 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I like the template it's fun, easy to use, fluffy and fits well with Nids being different to everything else. I think that to combat the multiple templates problem simply put a line in its description stating that multiple templates have no further effect or that units hit by multiples only get hit once etc etc. - there's only so much burning death a target can take! :D It's simple and effective.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:27 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
put a line in its description stating that multiple templates have no further effect or that units hit by multiples only get hit once etc etc


As has been discussed elsewhere, many think that that's an overly-harsh penalty on flame weapons, since BP weapons get other benefits to compensate for not being able to overlap (Extra BM's, better to-hit values etc).

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net