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Nids - a new player's perspective

Dobbsy

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:16 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

After finally getting some games in with Chroma(thanks bud!) I can put down my views.

Spawning- would there be a problem in being able to assign up to 2 mycetic spores to a swarm at one time? Or remove the enemy within 30cm rule? In the end you still use up your spores (quicker than would be the norm at present even!)and I would imagine the hive mind would be able to ascertain where they were needed to swell the front line ranks etc...
At present it seems almost impossible to spawn the bigger bugs as you almost never seem to have enough points on average. I never spawned more than 2 in three games! Ok I see the validity of making their brood cost higher to reflect their rarity but to make it a bit more possible to actually spawn any when it's time to make the roll would be nice.

I have to say the Heirophant was a big disappointment. It doesn't really inspire me with terror as it should. Too vulnerable for the points. Granted I may have not used it super-well but when you're facing TK weapons in most heavy formations it's stupid to just charge it out to be shot to pieces.

Has anyone thought about increasing the big bugs' DC in lieu of shields?? Especially the Dom... A SC that cops all manner of MW/TK fire unless you spend hideous points to shield it.... Even at the proposed 450 points I wouldn't bother. Could the Dom get its warp shield back maybe?

Also, has anyone thought about giving the Indepent formations 1+ initiative? I can understand the broods issue, but for a "thinking" bug the amount of times they fail an order seems silly. Surely, Nids could be allowed a bit of lee-way for an army that has to spend 450+ points to have a SC.

Also, LICTORS seem to SUCK! The teleport rule just doesn't do them justice in Epic. A 6cm FF engagement makes them ridiculously vulnerable for a formation that expensive, so bring back Flesh hooks please! It would go some way to giving them some chance at FF at least.

Other than that I really liked the Nids. A reasonably well done list so far though, despite the above issues.

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:06 am

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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

[QUOTE]It cannot be too large number Allowing 4d3 is too much So I would not make it possible to use 2 spores to one swarm

Ok, fair enough. Could we then perhaps bring back the previous levels of +X to the spawn rates? the current ones seem to give you too little. I noticed almost all the Synapse creatures had their spawn bonuses reduced.

The increase of DC also increases amount of dices rolled in engages.
And it makes the bio titans better at regen and less vulnerable to non TK weaponry. So all in all upgrading DC for the bio titans in not a good idea.
Right, I understand. No worries.

The Dominatrix is in a state of flux at this point. So I'd rather try it out before judging that it needs something.
Fair enough, I guess I can only give you what my first impression of what I read says and it's telling me I have to buy more expensive bugs to keep my SC alive, which isn't very fair IMO anyway(notto mention its starting price)

Major ability of the Dominatrix is that it can bring 1 WE back per turn (most likely) and that gives it 3DC "ablative shield" per turn
Ok, but like I side these cost points (just to get a re-roll?) and it doesn't lookto survive too long

Initiative 1+ is not something to do. Simply as we don't get -1 for BMs. So with nids I1+ is way too good
Seems fair enough, I just thought that seeing as you dont get many of them it goes some way to balancing the fact the Dom costs you 450+ points ... Maybe this subject is tied too closely to the subject of the cost of the Dominatrix. I dunno...

But as Nids have SR1 they usually can't go before the opponent and that can lead to their destruction very easily
This is a very good point here Hena. You can put all the unit stats you want on a unit type but if they are screwed by the rules set more often than not, then their usefulness and cost get effected substantially.

Also if they get any kind of FF ability the cost needs to rechecked to make sure it's not too low
Well for a 6+ FF value I think it's negligible with the amount of actual kills they would make given their current cost.

At risk of maybe asking too much, could perhaps Fearless work for them? It would go a long way to keeping them alive longer in a FF as they wouldn't lose troops from resolution. I would definitely be fine with losing invulnerable save and the MW attack to keep them around longer in an engagement.

How does this look on paper?

Lictor - speed 15cm, armour 5+, CC3+, FF0
weapon claws +1 attack
notes: Fearless, Infiltrator, Scout, Teleport, Independent

Thoughts?

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:13 am

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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Ooh! I just remembered something about the Heirophant and why I didn't like it too much.

Why is it not fearless?

Given the vast majority of the Synapse creatures and the Hydraphant are why is this so? Is it a typo perhaps?

Also, given all the other Synapse creatures are fearless why is it the Lesser Node isn't? It doesn't make too much sense to me. I hope it's another typo.

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Hojyn

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:55 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France

(Hena @ Feb. 01 2007,05:49)

QUOTE

Also, LICTORS seem to SUCK! ?The teleport rule just doesn't do them justice in Epic. A 6cm FF engagement makes them ridiculously vulnerable for a formation that expensive, so bring back Flesh hooks please! It would go some way to giving them some chance at FF at least.

Perhaps they deserve 6+ FF? Who else has used them, opinions people. I don't use them much so I can't tell. But do realise that They don't get BM for teleporting. Which is very good thing. But as Nids have SR1 they usually can't go before the opponent and that can lead to their destruction very easily. Also if they get any kind of FF ability the cost needs to rechecked to make sure it's not too low.

Well, if the opponent has to waste an activation in order to get rid of the Lictors, I'd say they have played their part in diverting the enemy's attention from the advance of the rest of the horde.

That's what Lictors are, right : a diversion? They can wreak havok if you let them roam free, but they shouldn't be too difficult to destroy.

Also, what would justify FF6+? They have no ranged weapons (except from their very short-ranged hooks) and only rely on their claws.

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Lightbringer

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:17 am

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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:09 am
Posts: 276

I agree - no firefight for Lictors! Use them in pairs to teleport in and distract the enemy - for instance against whirlwinds, teleport a pair in 9cm from some whirlinds to prevent the whirlwinds unleashing a sustained fire barrage (as they will be in the scout zone of control of the lictors and must engage or move) - they are fine as they are, sure they are a gamble but the whole essence of the bug army is that you never know how it will turn out - we don't want them to turn into marines now do we?

Lightbringer
:cool:

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:19 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I'd leave the lictor as it is.

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thurse

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:23 pm

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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Dundee, Scotland

I agree, no need to change them.
They are no terminator and are quite subtle to use. Using 2 formations is IMHO much more interesting.
A good example is when a swarm is at engage range at the beginning of the turn. If you teleport both lictor formations in assault range, your opponent won't be able to avoid all 3 potential engagement, even if he retains ( or is eldar ).

Maximizing the number of formation that are close enough to engage is a tactic that made me suffer a lot against the nids. That's why lictors ( amongst other points ) are valuable

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nealhunt

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:46 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

This is hilarious. After browsing some french sites with google they complain about same things (bio titans, lictors). Only that they are too good.

I usually take this as a good sign that the list is starting to zero in.

I agree with most of what has been said defending the Nid list as it is.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:09 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Holy **** Hena and I agree!

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Nids - a new player's perspective

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:49 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

A fresh look at things from a completely new perspective doesn't hold any weight huh? OK, no problem.

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