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[Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
Dave
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:56 pm 
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I guess it's all the numbers. I can make 9.1 one lists in my head, this seems like a lot more to remember.

I'll send you what I caught.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 02 Feb. 2009, 14:56 )

I guess it's all the numbers. I can make 9.1 one lists in my head, this seems like a lot more to remember.

Well, you're going to have to write it down eventually anyway to show your opponent...  :laugh:

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Quote: (Hojyn @ 02 Feb. 2009, 08:56 )

- The Stage I/II/III is nice but a bit confusing a first. Perhaps make a separate insert to explain how it works, just to make things perfectly clear?

Agreed.  With the pseudo-Ork organization, people will unavoidably use the Ork list as a comparison.  Something like the "Stage II Burrowing Swarm" is going to look like 2 Trygons for 150 points to a lot of people.

It might be better to simply list the units instead of the double/triple language, e.g.

Brood Swarm -
Stage I: 1 Warrior, 6 Gaunts
Stage II:  2 Warriors, 12 Gaunts
Stage III:  3 Warriors, 18 Gaunts
Extras:  etc.

...

Burrowing Swarm
Stage II: 1 Trygon OR 3 Raveners
Stage III:  2 Trygons OR 6 Raveners [OR 1 Trygon/3 Raveners?]

The "2 support swarms, but also equal or lower stage" is fiddly enough.  Better make the rest of it as explicit as possible.

- If only Stage III is available, are the extra units tripled, i.e. if I take a Vituperator, can I add 0-3 Gargoyles or 0-9 Gargoyles?


Again, the assumption is that if it looks like the Ork list, the mechanics will be the same.  0-9 will be the assumption of many players unless specifically stated otherwise.

- "Additionally, no more than one third of the army’s points may be spent on Bio-Titans from any section" > Does this include Primary Swarms as well? Given the new structure of the list (Titans are only available at Stages II-III), is this restriction even necessary?

The Vituperator labeled as "biotitan" and a separate "biotitan" section is confusing as well.  Does the Vituperator count or not?  I suggest having simply Synapse and Independent tables, and leave the "biotitan" as a by-formation designation.

===

Edit:  I still think the Biotitan restriction is necessary.  Without it a single Stage 3 Primary Sarm can unlock 1200 points of Biotitans.  It would be possible to have 1 Stage III Gaunt swarm, a Dominatrix, and all biotitans at 3000 points.  Sure, you'd only have 6 actrivations, but they'd all be rock-hard.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:28 pm 
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I like the look. Looks very tyranidey tome :D

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Hojyn
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Now that I've had more time to think about it: is this change really necessary?

Sure it's easier to make an army list "on the spot", but not that easier (the various points value for individual units are a nightmare to add up), and the 9.1 flexibility is partly gone.

Also, I think this version would make the Spawning and Synapse rules impractical: now that formations have a "fixed cost" (i.e. Stage II Brood Swarm + 3 Gargoyles =  350 points), 'nids would have a BTS objective just like any other army. And Spawning and/or Swarm reorganisation would mess up with that.

Finally, it will probably take many tests and long debates to balance this new list setup. It would feel like starting all over again when we're so close to a balanced and playable army list right now.

I like the idea of the "orky" list organisation, but why not leave it to the French list? The TC list could represent "Hive Fleet XXX" and the French list "Hive Fleet YYY": same units, with slightly different stats and different force orgs.

I'd rather see a 9.2 version.  :))
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Dave
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Those have been my main problems with it. I know Chroma loves to shake things up, ???, but there's something to be said for the development we've done up until this point.

Having seen some of the proposed special rule changes I'd rather see small changes so we can evaluate each change with relatively little else.

Baby steps Bob. Baby steps.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 05 Feb. 2009, 15:17 )

Baby steps Bob. Baby steps.

Okay, okay... *laugh*  I won't take big Bio-titan steps... but smaller Brood-creature steps... hope to have something posted by the weekend.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:13 pm 
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Chroma: Do you stiill have a copy of this? It was lost in the last big crash. I'd be very interested in seeing it again.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:48 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Chroma: Do you stiill have a copy of this? It was lost in the last big crash. I'd be very interested in seeing it again.

I'll look in my archives for it; can't recall what the actual file was called, but I should be able to locate it.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Is it this list?


Attachments:
EPIC___TyranidsExperimentalList.pdf [60.17 KiB]
Downloaded 267 times

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Chroma
 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:03 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Is it this list?

I believe so!

Man, I really like the "growth" concept of that list... hmmmm...
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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Alternate Army List Setup
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:01 am 
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I believe this list has an interesting concept and one that I am willing to try out.

It is very confusing to read from the start (re: stages) and believe that will need to be re-written. Not sure if it is the word 'stage' that makes it confusing as apposed to 'uge' in the ork list which is an easier image to grasp.

Also the inclusion of no stage greater than the primary stage to buy it is quite clunky. I would suggest looking at what Morgan Vening did with his Dvergatal Confederation Squats with his 'Support Points' idea. It may be a different angle. At present, it took about 4 reads to grasp what the restrictions were in the list.

Is it being redone to include all the other special rules - as evidenced in another thread, there was a change to 5+ armour (??). It would be good to have all of it in one document rather than looking for three.

Thanks

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