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Varient Lists

 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:28 am 
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naturally i remember something else as soon as i get done posting.  
too many special rules. as having converted over to the "new" EA rules about a year an a half ago, it was gloriously stream lined. i think i heard angels singing the first time i played orcs and we didn't have to spend an hour looking up which each units special rules were. while i realize the nids list is nowhere close to that but it still has many rules that could be changed to incorporate existing special rules (expendable, the necron/void shield/regen thing)
lastly (for real this time) i don't mean to sound too negative. i think the rules aren't terrible, just not how i envision the list to be.


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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:34 am 
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IIRC E&C deliberately made the fex varients in the Leviathan list so they could easily be counts-as for the bio-tanks.

He even has the Fexocrine...

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:37 am 
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Indeed, the Leviathan list is supposed to provide three broad templates for Counts As, with three iconic roles: Close Combat, Firefight and Range Shooting.

Those spots could be filled interchangably by Carnifex variants, or old bio-slugs.

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:41 am 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 21 Jul. 2009, 12:34 )

IIRC E&C deliberately made the fex varients in the Leviathan list so they could easily be counts-as for the bio-tanks.

He even has the Fexocrine...

Fexruspex
Fexlefactor
Fexocrine
Fexotylis

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:50 am 
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Quote: (Markconz @ 21 Jul. 2009, 00:41 )

Quote: (zombocom @ 21 Jul. 2009, 12:34 )

IIRC E&C deliberately made the fex varients in the Leviathan list so they could easily be counts-as for the bio-tanks.

He even has the Fexocrine...

Fexruspex
Fexlefactor
Fexocrine
Fexotylis

Harufex
Malefextor
Fexocrine

and, erm... Dactylifex?




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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:50 am 
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Quote: (Markconz @ 21 Jul. 2009, 00:41 )

Fexlefactor

I prefer "Carnifactor"...  :vD

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:51 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 20 Jul. 2009, 13:12 )

Whatever happens with the rules, I would prefer tyranids to be an overwhelming force. I always picture the assaults of the nids as something out of Starship Troopers, and I would not want that to change.

Though somewhat ironically thats very hard to do with warriors being lv's - ravenor (whats a ravenor) or AV/WE swarms make more sense. I don't know the reason, maybe its all the special rules, but a infantry swarm is currently more viable with orks or siegers (tyranids average cost per infantry unit 25 points, steel legion 19 points, siegers very cheap and orks 17.5).

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:57 am 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 21 Jul. 2009, 00:51 )

Though somewhat ironically thats very hard to do with warriors being lv's - ravenor (whats a ravenor) or AV/WE swarms make more sense.

I don't think the Bugs in Starship Troopers were "Gaunts"...  :laugh:

They were definitely "Ravener"-sized creatures... so, it's remarkably easy to make a "uniform" horde like that in v9.2.1!   :vD

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:00 am 
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The bugs strike me as being more TW in size and toughness actually.

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:07 am 
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They had legs too. :))

The big Tanker bugs were definitely Heirodules of some sort... but their Dominatrix was rubbish and didn't have any decent weapon biomorphs at all!

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:11 am 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 21 Jul. 2009, 01:00 )

The bugs strike me as being more TW in size and toughness actually.

Which Raveners approximately are... same Toughness and Wounds as Tyranid Warriors... but higher BS, WS, and Initative and more base attacks!

Hadn't realized Raveners had better "base stats" in 40k than Warriors!

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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:34 am 
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Some additional thoughts we might try (yeah, some are repeats from another thread, but since we're in the reform mood here...):

TWarrior --> Infantry, Raveners --> only tunnelers (allows inf only swarms, makes gaunts more common than raveners)

Gaunts --> 6/cluster, 100 pts; make uncommon 1/1 (allows a slightly higher percentage of larger creatures but not overwhelmingly so)

Add Tyrant Guard w/ cc 4+ as option for swarms w/ Hive Tyrants (another cool unit from the Lev list)

Doing this as well as combining the fex/slugs would round out any combination of lists, imo.


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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:54 am 
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About the names for the carnifex variants, here is what I would use:

(Suggested name -- weapons config in 40K -- counts-as Slug).

Screamer-killer -- 2 sets of scything talons -- None
Venomspitter -- 2 venom cannons -- Exocrine
Stone-crusher -- Crushing claws + possible other combat weapons -- Haruspex
Bilespitter -- 2 sets of twinlinked devourers -- Malefactor
Strangler-beast / Deathseeder -- barbed strangler and scything talons -- Dactylis

Screamer-killer and Venomspitter are straight examples in 40K codex, so they are as official variant names as one can get. Stone-crusher comes from FW, and it has always been used to describe that particular Carnifex type, so we can’t go wrong by using that.

The final two have no official designations. Devourer Carnifex has been called either Devilfex or Dakkafex in 40K jargon, but I don't think that those names fit with the first three.

There is one example in the 40K codex that uses one set of devourers and one set of crushing claws, and it is called Bile-beast. I came up with the Bilespitter by combining Venomspitter and Bile-beast, assuming that the -spitter part of the name refers to purely shooting-orientated variant.

Last one was the most difficult, as there are no variant names that link to the barbed stranger as a weapon. Strangler-beast would give out the primary weapon quite clearly, but I think that Deathseeder is way more menacing name. It is derived from the barbed strangler's ammunition (strangler seed pods). Also the Dactylis model would be very fitting count-as model for something that is called a Deathseeder.


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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Ok, I've had a read around and I have to change my mind on the slugs/fexes combination. The Assault Spawn still exist in the background and are not fex variants or fex derivatives. The current 40k Nid codex lists Haruspex, Malefactor, Exocrine and Trygon in together as potential Ravener strain derivatives (Makes sense based on the speed).

The only problem we have with the assault spawn is that there is no 40k equivalent model to compare like the Trygon and we are basing everything on old ugly slug models.

A shooting Fex variant to compliment the existing screamer killer I think is worthwhile but the Assault Spawn need to stay, either as they are now or as a buffed pair for 150pts (Haruspex, Malefactor) something noticeably bigger and harder than the fex (closer to the Trygon in look and stats (I think RA already meets this requirement)).


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 Post subject: Varient Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:53 pm 
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On the old GW homepage there where articles for different Carnifex variants with stats, biomorphs and names.

Found some in the Tyranid armybuilding article:

- Screamer-Climber Carnifex (Two Pairs of Scything Talons, Flesh Hooks, Bio-Plasma)
- Screamer-Killer Carnifexes (Two Pairs of Scything Talons, Bio-Plasma)
- Venomspitter Carnifex (Two Venom Cannons)
- Thornback Carnifex (Barbed Strangler, Twin Devourers, Thornback Carapace)
- Shovel-Tusker Carnifex (Scything Talons, Crushing Claws, Mace Tail, Tusks)




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